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How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

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Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#41

Post by josefresco »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #39
josefresco wrote: post #34

From the thread: "recognize the difference between tolerated and allowed" What a horrible way of governing, almost worse than the US's state vs. federal legality (at least it's officially "legal" on the state level and not just tolerated ). Telling people that something is illegal but "tolerated" is a license for potential abuse by authorities. It essentially makes all prosecution a judgement call for individual auth…

I agree with you completely. If my very shallow understanding of the issue is correct, I think it may be because US foreign policy strongly pushes drug prohibition with its trade partners. By keeping cannabis "illegal" nations get to sort of feign compliance with US demands while having as little domestic effect as possible.

Interesting, I didn't even think of that angle. Is there any reference to support this hypothesis? I would love to read more about how US foreign policy or aid potentially effects the laws of other countries. I could see the US getting involved with big drug export countries (e.g. Columbia) but I wonder how involved they are with others that don't play a large part in the global drug trade.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#42

Post by dep_b »

ohwp wrote: post #28
digitalengineer wrote: post #2

Dutchmen here. You can grow your own weed as well. Just not more than 5 plants and only for your own consumption. I'm no user, but I understand weed is for tourists and younger kids just chillin'/relaxing. There's a much larger user base for all those chemically created drugs for partying. Lately there's a new thing, it's actually for horses needing surgery and keeps them on their feet. Kids use it to prefent passing…

Dutchmen here. No you cannot have or grow plants. This is still illegal. They might shelve the case when you are having 5 plants or less. But above 5 they always make a case of it. And yes Ketamine (Special K / Vitamin K / Kokaine) is used as party drug, but alcohol, weed and nicotine are used most followed by XTC and cocaine.

Another Dutchman here. Indeed it's true that it's illegal to grow pot. Growing pot is completely illegal apart from some medicinal use, where they try to grow a variety that will not get you super high but still has medicinal value.

Let me make it clear: THERE IS NO WAY A COFFEESHOP CAN GET THEIR WEED IN A LEGAL WAY

Since the turn of the century we have seen a string of conservative governments, elected because other problems in our society, that like to clamp down on drugs and other liberal things because it makes them look tough without having to deal with the true problems in this country.

Indeed it is very strange that a country that has a vast majority of people in favor of legalization, as we have been the witnesses of the fact that regulated drugs have a positive effect on society.

Just to sum up how clueless our governments were in the last 12 year or so, an image of a former president that just says it all:

http://tegekvoorwoorden.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/balkenen...

FUCK DRUGS. LET'S HAVE A BEER!

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#43

Post by dep_b »

Heliosmaster wrote: post #36
StudyAnimal wrote: post #14

What is the current situation in towns like Maastricht and Heerlen that decided to implement the residents only restriction? Was that rolled back or not?

Nope. Here in Eindhoven you have to be a member to geet weed, or so I am told.

That's true. They have limited amounts of memberships as well so a buddy that still smokes regularly visited them all in the first day he could register just to be sure.

I am now firmly convinced that the dopeheads of France will shave off their dreadlocks and start looking for a job now the cesspool of evil influence that was the Dutch liberal stance on drugs has been eradicated.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#44

Post by chimeracoder »

Good explanation, but this title is incredibly misleading. Marijuana was never legal in the Netherlands[0], for tourists or residents. As the linked answer itself points out, it was only tolerated.

Until November 2012, there was no place in the world where marijuana was truly legal, except (possibly) North Korea[1]. Even still, it's a stretch to say that marijuana is legal in Washington State and Colorado, since the Feds could easily decide tomorrow that they want to crack down on it, and you could be arrested[2].

The distinction between legality and tolerance is important. Decriminalization and/or tolerance provide only a small subset of the benefits of true legalization. Without true legalization, you cannot have (ex.) quality control via local regulators, nor can you choke off drug cartels by undercutting one of their most profitable products. (Instead, you may even end up putting money into their pockets, depending on where you source the marijuana from - thankfully, this is less of an issue in Colorado and Washington).

Anyway, marijuana is now clearly less illegal in Colorado than in the Netherlands (in Denver, it is allowed under both city[3] and state law, though not federal law). Personally, I'm glad that the US now has its own place to go for marijuana tourism (similar to Tijuana for alcohol) - one could say that this is US protectionism at its finest!

[0] Well, at least not since the US started exporting its drug policy worldwide several decades ago.

[1] Alaska has a similar policy in private residences since 1977 due to a state court ruling on the right to privacy, but it is still illegal. North Korea has been cited as the one exception to this rule (ironically), but reports of its legality there are mixed.

[2] Look at what happened in Harborside and Oaksterdam (when cracking down on medical dispensaries, the Obama administration has used an underhanded tax catch-22 as political cover for busting shops that he previously said he'd allow, but the effect is the same).

[3] Denver legalized marijuana by city vote in 2006, and Breckenridge, CO legalized marijuana by town vote in 2009

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#45

Post by nmc »

malka wrote: post #5
digitalengineer wrote: post #2

Dutchmen here. You can grow your own weed as well. Just not more than 5 plants and only for your own consumption. I'm no user, but I understand weed is for tourists and younger kids just chillin'/relaxing. There's a much larger user base for all those chemically created drugs for partying. Lately there's a new thing, it's actually for horses needing surgery and keeps them on their feet. Kids use it to prefent passing…

are you saying that there are more user of `hard` drug than user of weed in dutch ? this seems really weird.

Would not surprise me at all. Despite the well-known image of the street filled with coffee-shops, really a few Dutch people smoke: less than 5% of them use the coffee-shops, and less than 10% of 15-24-year-olds.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#46

Post by aestra »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #8

There's a lot of laws like this that don't get enforced as much as 'law' would imply. Another example is the ban on smoking in workplaces to protect the employees; in the Netherlands, a couple of years ago, this law was implemented, meaning that smoking was effectively banned from bars and pubs as well. Outrage ensued from all sides. Two 'workarounds' were created: * People just donate to the pub owner to pay the fin…

Interesting.

I remember a while ago there was suddenly many States in the US to enact smoking bans in bars/restaurants mostly one right after another. I remember when I was in high school they passed the law in my State and they had some people interviewed on the news about it. However, while I heard about "smokeasys" existing (term comes from prohibition era speakeasys) I have never seen one and I've been to a lot of bars in many areas and various States. Some people complained but compliance was basically a non issue.

As a result, I think younger smokers are now just used to going outside to smoke, I don't know hardly anyone who smokes in their house and those that do seem to be really old. Very very few non-smokers let smokers smoke in their house, and hardly any smokers ask, they just walk outside. This wasn't the case even 15 years ago.

It wasn't really that long since the law had passed, but several (probably 6) years ago I went to the American South and I was asked "smoking or non-smoking" and it was so weird, even though that's basically how I grew up! When I was a kid teachers smoked in the teacher's lounge, in school.

However hookah bars are allowed to exist almost everywhere as far as I can tell, and I really never understood how that fits into the law.

Also a few States allow exceptions for private clubs so places like the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) allow smoking.

Also, some except casinos, for whatever weird reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_Uni...

Any other places these laws are loosely enforced?

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#47

Post by Mvandenbergh »

josefresco wrote: post #34

From the thread: "recognize the difference between tolerated and allowed" What a horrible way of governing, almost worse than the US's state vs. federal legality (at least it's officially "legal" on the state level and not just tolerated ). Telling people that something is illegal but "tolerated" is a license for potential abuse by authorities. It essentially makes all prosecution a judgement call for individual auth…

Not really because the limits of what is and what is not tolerated are not arbitrarily decided by individuals. There are clearly understood and published local guidelines, effectively this is often an end-run around national level laws that the local community collectively chooses not to enforce. A prosecution brought against someone who was within the understood, tolerated guidelines wouldn't be successful because it would contravene the principle of the rule of law (quite central to Dutch political and judicial thinking).

The crucial elements of the rule of law, predictability and detachment from individual judgement outside of established and controlled channels is maintained in the Dutch system because there exist universally understood and judicially binding methods of disseminating the local guidelines.

I'll admit that it usually isn't explained very well because it's mostly lay Dutch people explaining their understanding.

Notably, I've never heard of a case anywhere in the Netherlands where this principle has been abused.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#48

Post by ansgri »

_delirium wrote: post #15
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #8

There's a lot of laws like this that don't get enforced as much as 'law' would imply. Another example is the ban on smoking in workplaces to protect the employees; in the Netherlands, a couple of years ago, this law was implemented, meaning that smoking was effectively banned from bars and pubs as well. Outrage ensued from all sides. Two 'workarounds' were created: * People just donate to the pub owner to pay the fin…

Interesting, is smoking still common in bars in the Netherlands? That's one of the laws that actually is pretty widely followed in other countries. One of the more surprising was that in a period of about 3 years, Greek bars and nightclubs went from being 100% smoke-filled to being essentially smoke-free.

Greek bars, really? I've been to Thessaloniki in November, and there were few bars/restaurants with a smoke-free zones, and I cannot imagine a completely non-smoking bar there.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#49

Post by smutticus »

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #32
netcan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very pro EU. The original purpose was to avoid wars, long teem. That goal is still relevant. Free trade and free movement were both considered tools. I consider them (especially the often neglected free movement) ends themselves. That said, the EU has issues. Lots of political traditions and very few basic principles to guide how things should be done. What EU is and isn't responsible for isn't clear. There has…

I have become very anti-EU in recent years. I am very much pro open borders with neighboring nations, but the EU has become a vehicle for creating a fundamentally undemocratic centralized federal state. And I especially detest the way the EU tries to shift the balance of power by allowing impoverished, corrupt nations into the EU without any kind of democratic process. In the Netherlands, there is a clear majority ag…

Hear, hear.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#50

Post by malka »

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #32
netcan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very pro EU. The original purpose was to avoid wars, long teem. That goal is still relevant. Free trade and free movement were both considered tools. I consider them (especially the often neglected free movement) ends themselves. That said, the EU has issues. Lots of political traditions and very few basic principles to guide how things should be done. What EU is and isn't responsible for isn't clear. There has…

I have become very anti-EU in recent years. I am very much pro open borders with neighboring nations, but the EU has become a vehicle for creating a fundamentally undemocratic centralized federal state. And I especially detest the way the EU tries to shift the balance of power by allowing impoverished, corrupt nations into the EU without any kind of democratic process. In the Netherlands, there is a clear majority ag…

ah ah, in France, we kinda had the same problem with the eu 'constitution'. the referendum result was 'no'. So, the name was changed, and it was voted by the parliament. Democracy at its finest. never bothered to vote since.
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