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How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

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Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#31

Post by rmrfrmrf »

adobriyan wrote: post #21
JonnieCache wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Ketamine is exceptionally safe and relatively non-addictive BTW This is dangerous misinformation. I've had more than one friend almost die from compulsive ketamine use. Just because it might not be physiologically addictive like opiates, doesn't mean that you won't be wiping it from around your nose every morning while you wait for the bus at 8:30 to go to classes, losing all your friends and so much weight that you…

Any reasonable public forum will flat out ban any drug discussions because of experts like 70forty who tell kids it is safe.

This is quite an instructive thread on why it has taken so long for sensible drug policies to be put in place around the world. One person makes a generalization, another person counters with a broader generalization, someone throws in their n=1 experience, and now suddenly we're off the topic of drugs and onto dictating what is "reasonable" discussion for a public forum.

The bottom line: you are responsible for 1) your own intelligence and 2) your own body. Having done research on Ketamine, I was well aware that 70forty's comments were inaccurate, but I chose not reply because he may very well be right by his own definition of "safe" and "non-addictive" based on his knowledge and experience. I would hold anyone who chooses to try any chemical to the same standard -- do your own fact-finding, draw your own conclusions, and be your own authority over your body.

Suggesting that we should suppress any comment that has some remote potential for catastrophe, though, is a bit much.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#32

Post by bowlofpetunias »

netcan wrote: post #16
skrebbel wrote: post #3

Independent of the actual subject matter, I think that recent drug policy changes in the Netherlands is a great example of how the common push for centralization can be countered by local demands. At some point, drug enforcement was pretty much the same across the country, but now, because different cities have different problems and influences, it is enforced differently in cities. As a strong believer in the "subsi…

I am very pro EU. The original purpose was to avoid wars, long teem. That goal is still relevant. Free trade and free movement were both considered tools. I consider them (especially the often neglected free movement) ends themselves. That said, the EU has issues. Lots of political traditions and very few basic principles to guide how things should be done. What EU is and isn't responsible for isn't clear. There has…

I have become very anti-EU in recent years.

I am very much pro open borders with neighboring nations, but the EU has become a vehicle for creating a fundamentally undemocratic centralized federal state.

And I especially detest the way the EU tries to shift the balance of power by allowing impoverished, corrupt nations into the EU without any kind of democratic process.

In the Netherlands, there is a clear majority against the expansion of the EU, and we are being railroaded. We voted against the EU "constitution" in the only meaningful referendum in the history of our nation, and they simply changed the fucking name.

The fact that an originally very strongly pro-European nation like the Netherlands said "no further" should have been a clear signal to reform the EU, but instead things have just become worse.

I'm still pro-European, but consider the EU the enemy of our freedom, democracy and sovereignty.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#33

Post by lucian1900 »

skrebbel wrote: post #26
chad_oliver wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting to note that the European Union officially establishes the Principle of Subsidiarity in the 1992 Treaty of Maastricht. So theoretically we should never have EU regulations which breach this principle. In practice, things might be different!

I find that in practice, the exact opposite happens. A fine example to illustrate how difficult this is, is differences in attitudes towards homosexuals. One country, e.g. Croatia, where homosexuality is not as accepted as it is in my country (the Netherlands), might decide to forbid a Gay Parade because the risk of its participants being beaten up is too big. This, in turn, would cause great political turmoil in a c…

All forms of governance must be forced to uphold human rights. No political argument can counter that without arguing that not all humans have the same rights.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#34

Post by josefresco »

From the thread: "recognize the difference between tolerated and allowed" What a horrible way of governing, almost worse than the US's state vs. federal legality (at least it's officially "legal" on the state level and not just tolerated). Telling people that something is illegal but "tolerated" is a license for potential abuse by authorities. It essentially makes all prosecution a judgement call for individual authority figures. Sounds like a recipe for potential abuse to me.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#35

Post by adobriyan »

70forty wrote: post #25
adobriyan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any reasonable public forum will flat out ban any drug discussions because of experts like 70forty who tell kids it is safe.

And I stand by what I said. It's tough to find statistics but the article below says that between 1993 and 2006, 23 deaths were tied to ketamine use. That to me qualifies as safe and relatively non-addictive in the context of recreational drug use. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ketamine-tops... Oh yeah, and banning discussion of recreational drug use will do wonders for harm reduction, lol.

> 23 deaths were tied to ketamine use.

some future ketamine deaths are on you, 70forty

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#36

Post by Heliosmaster »

StudyAnimal wrote: post #14

What is the current situation in towns like Maastricht and Heerlen that decided to implement the residents only restriction? Was that rolled back or not?

Nope. Here in Eindhoven you have to be a member to geet weed, or so I am told.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#37

Post by Ergomane »

nmc wrote: post #10
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #8

There's a lot of laws like this that don't get enforced as much as 'law' would imply. Another example is the ban on smoking in workplaces to protect the employees; in the Netherlands, a couple of years ago, this law was implemented, meaning that smoking was effectively banned from bars and pubs as well. Outrage ensued from all sides. Two 'workarounds' were created: * People just donate to the pub owner to pay the fin…

Good examples, except for downloading: Dutch law recognizes intellectual property, broadcasting/selling copyrighted material is forbidden, but obtaining it is not illegal.

That depends on what is downloaded. Downloading copyrighted software is illegal in NL, downloading movies, music and books is not.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#38

Post by netcan »

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #32
netcan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very pro EU. The original purpose was to avoid wars, long teem. That goal is still relevant. Free trade and free movement were both considered tools. I consider them (especially the often neglected free movement) ends themselves. That said, the EU has issues. Lots of political traditions and very few basic principles to guide how things should be done. What EU is and isn't responsible for isn't clear. There has…

I have become very anti-EU in recent years. I am very much pro open borders with neighboring nations, but the EU has become a vehicle for creating a fundamentally undemocratic centralized federal state. And I especially detest the way the EU tries to shift the balance of power by allowing impoverished, corrupt nations into the EU without any kind of democratic process. In the Netherlands, there is a clear majority ag…

That's unfortunate and possibly the downfall of many good things. Much of the objection to the EU has come form nationalists around Europe. We have many.

The worst case scenario is when/if European politics gets dichotomized into Eurocrat vs Nationalist. Instead i would like to see the EU go back to basics. I don't think it's too late. A reaffirmation of basic principles. Free movement. Free trade. The core tenants of a united Europe. I don't give much of a damn about sovereignty, but I do care about local lawmaking.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#39

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

josefresco wrote: post #34

From the thread: "recognize the difference between tolerated and allowed" What a horrible way of governing, almost worse than the US's state vs. federal legality (at least it's officially "legal" on the state level and not just tolerated ). Telling people that something is illegal but "tolerated" is a license for potential abuse by authorities. It essentially makes all prosecution a judgement call for individual auth…

I agree with you completely. If my very shallow understanding of the issue is correct, I think it may be because US foreign policy strongly pushes drug prohibition with its trade partners. By keeping cannabis "illegal" nations get to sort of feign compliance with US demands while having as little domestic effect as possible.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#40

Post by sizzle »

shawnz wrote: post #27
70forty wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I stand by what I said. It's tough to find statistics but the article below says that between 1993 and 2006, 23 deaths were tied to ketamine use. That to me qualifies as safe and relatively non-addictive in the context of recreational drug use. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ketamine-tops... Oh yeah, and banning discussion of recreational drug use will do wonders for harm reduction, lol.

I don't see where you are getting "relatively non-addictive" from. I have had many positive experiences with Ketamine, but I will be the first to say that it takes a lot of self-control to not overdo it. EDIT: To be clear, I am aware ketamine is not physically addictive. However I find it to be one of the most psychologically addictive drugs I have taken.

as in, you crave the feeling of being on it?
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