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How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

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Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#21

Post by adobriyan »

JonnieCache wrote: post #13
70forty wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ketamine is hardly a new trend in recreational drug use and I've never heard of it being used by anyone to prevent "passing out from all the other drugs". Ketamine in high but still sub-anesthetic doses induces a semi-conscious state referred to as the "k-hole", more or less giving the appearance of being passed out. At lower doses it does strongly effect balance and coordination, so the "stumbling" bit is probably j…

>Ketamine is exceptionally safe and relatively non-addictive BTW This is dangerous misinformation. I've had more than one friend almost die from compulsive ketamine use. Just because it might not be physiologically addictive like opiates, doesn't mean that you won't be wiping it from around your nose every morning while you wait for the bus at 8:30 to go to classes, losing all your friends and so much weight that you…

Any reasonable public forum will flat out ban any drug discussions because of experts like 70forty who tell kids it is safe.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#22

Post by JonnieCache »

adobriyan wrote: post #21
JonnieCache wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Ketamine is exceptionally safe and relatively non-addictive BTW This is dangerous misinformation. I've had more than one friend almost die from compulsive ketamine use. Just because it might not be physiologically addictive like opiates, doesn't mean that you won't be wiping it from around your nose every morning while you wait for the bus at 8:30 to go to classes, losing all your friends and so much weight that you…

Any reasonable public forum will flat out ban any drug discussions because of experts like 70forty who tell kids it is safe.

The problem is, it is "safe" in the sense that it is a medical drug with a known set of effects. You cannot cause breathing to cease with ketamine. People aren't allergic to it. It is used on battlefields and in road traffic accidents for these reasons. It doesn't really cause vomiting, at least not in the lethal combination with total unconsciousness that leads alcohol and heroin to take so many lives. So it is "safe," especially in the context of occasional use.

When you get a community of people with constant, cheap access to large amounts, it's a different story. Ironically, if the acute effects were slightly more severe, the long-term effects might not be such a problem, as chronic abuse would be less prevalent.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#23

Post by [deleted] »

JonnieCache wrote: post #13
70forty wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ketamine is hardly a new trend in recreational drug use and I've never heard of it being used by anyone to prevent "passing out from all the other drugs". Ketamine in high but still sub-anesthetic doses induces a semi-conscious state referred to as the "k-hole", more or less giving the appearance of being passed out. At lower doses it does strongly effect balance and coordination, so the "stumbling" bit is probably j…

>Ketamine is exceptionally safe and relatively non-addictive BTW This is dangerous misinformation. I've had more than one friend almost die from compulsive ketamine use. Just because it might not be physiologically addictive like opiates, doesn't mean that you won't be wiping it from around your nose every morning while you wait for the bus at 8:30 to go to classes, losing all your friends and so much weight that you…

[deleted]

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#24

Post by adobriyan »

JonnieCache wrote: post #22
adobriyan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any reasonable public forum will flat out ban any drug discussions because of experts like 70forty who tell kids it is safe.

The problem is, it is "safe" in the sense that it is a medical drug with a known set of effects. You cannot cause breathing to cease with ketamine. People aren't allergic to it. It is used on battlefields and in road traffic accidents for these reasons. It doesn't really cause vomiting, at least not in the lethal combination with total unconsciousness that leads alcohol and heroin to take so many lives. So it is "saf…

Before HN I only heard of ketamine once: Greg House telling nurses to tell Cuddy "I want ketamine". Drug is drug, OK.

Turns out it is well known "recreational" drug. Who knows, in a year, I might try it myself.

That's how it usually works.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#25

Post by 70forty »

adobriyan wrote: post #21
JonnieCache wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Ketamine is exceptionally safe and relatively non-addictive BTW This is dangerous misinformation. I've had more than one friend almost die from compulsive ketamine use. Just because it might not be physiologically addictive like opiates, doesn't mean that you won't be wiping it from around your nose every morning while you wait for the bus at 8:30 to go to classes, losing all your friends and so much weight that you…

Any reasonable public forum will flat out ban any drug discussions because of experts like 70forty who tell kids it is safe.

And I stand by what I said.

It's tough to find statistics but the article below says that between 1993 and 2006, 23 deaths were tied to ketamine use. That to me qualifies as safe and relatively non-addictive in the context of recreational drug use.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ketamine-tops...

Oh yeah, and banning discussion of recreational drug use will do wonders for harm reduction, lol.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#26

Post by skrebbel »

chad_oliver wrote: post #19
skrebbel wrote: post #3

Independent of the actual subject matter, I think that recent drug policy changes in the Netherlands is a great example of how the common push for centralization can be countered by local demands. At some point, drug enforcement was pretty much the same across the country, but now, because different cities have different problems and influences, it is enforced differently in cities. As a strong believer in the "subsi…

It is interesting to note that the European Union officially establishes the Principle of Subsidiarity in the 1992 Treaty of Maastricht. So theoretically we should never have EU regulations which breach this principle. In practice, things might be different!

I find that in practice, the exact opposite happens.

A fine example to illustrate how difficult this is, is differences in attitudes towards homosexuals. One country, e.g. Croatia, where homosexuality is not as accepted as it is in my country (the Netherlands), might decide to forbid a Gay Parade because the risk of its participants being beaten up is too big. This, in turn, would cause great political turmoil in a country like the Netherlands, because of discrimination.

In such cases, I've seen Dutch MEPs try to make Brussels enforce that the parade takes place and is properly protected by police.

Who is right? My sense of values says the Dutch. My sense of politics (subsidiarity) says that the Croatians can figure it out for themselves. Who are we to export our morals to other member states?

But this is an unpopular view. I suspect that the majority of Dutchmen would support strong European laws and guidelines to protect homosexuals. But what if Brussels starts to similarly override our drug policies, which many other member states find immoral? Suddenly this whole centralization thing doesn't sound so nice anymore.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#27

Post by shawnz »

70forty wrote: post #25
adobriyan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any reasonable public forum will flat out ban any drug discussions because of experts like 70forty who tell kids it is safe.

And I stand by what I said. It's tough to find statistics but the article below says that between 1993 and 2006, 23 deaths were tied to ketamine use. That to me qualifies as safe and relatively non-addictive in the context of recreational drug use. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ketamine-tops... Oh yeah, and banning discussion of recreational drug use will do wonders for harm reduction, lol.

I don't see where you are getting "relatively non-addictive" from. I have had many positive experiences with Ketamine, but I will be the first to say that it takes a lot of self-control to not overdo it.

EDIT: To be clear, I am aware ketamine is not physically addictive. However I find it to be one of the most psychologically addictive drugs I have taken.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#28

Post by ohwp »

digitalengineer wrote: post #2

Dutchmen here. You can grow your own weed as well. Just not more than 5 plants and only for your own consumption. I'm no user, but I understand weed is for tourists and younger kids just chillin'/relaxing. There's a much larger user base for all those chemically created drugs for partying. Lately there's a new thing, it's actually for horses needing surgery and keeps them on their feet. Kids use it to prefent passing…

Dutchmen here. No you cannot have or grow plants. This is still illegal. They might shelve the case when you are having 5 plants or less. But above 5 they always make a case of it.

And yes Ketamine (Special K / Vitamin K / Kokaine) is used as party drug, but alcohol, weed and nicotine are used most followed by XTC and cocaine.

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#29

Post by ramblerman »

013 wrote: post #4
digitalengineer wrote: post #2

Dutchmen here. You can grow your own weed as well. Just not more than 5 plants and only for your own consumption. I'm no user, but I understand weed is for tourists and younger kids just chillin'/relaxing. There's a much larger user base for all those chemically created drugs for partying. Lately there's a new thing, it's actually for horses needing surgery and keeps them on their feet. Kids use it to prefent passing…

>Lately there's a new thing, it's actually for horses needing surgery and keeps them on their feet. Kids use it to prefent passing out from all the other drugs. Funny thing is: They look like walking zombies stumbling about. Ketamine. [0] [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketamine

Ketamine is certainly not new (on the street or other). And as it is an anaesthetic, I highly doubt it would be used to prevent passing out.

So yeah... you got the wikipedia link right

Re: How smoking weed is still legal for tourists in Amsterdam

#30

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

skrebbel wrote: post #26
chad_oliver wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting to note that the European Union officially establishes the Principle of Subsidiarity in the 1992 Treaty of Maastricht. So theoretically we should never have EU regulations which breach this principle. In practice, things might be different!

I find that in practice, the exact opposite happens. A fine example to illustrate how difficult this is, is differences in attitudes towards homosexuals. One country, e.g. Croatia, where homosexuality is not as accepted as it is in my country (the Netherlands), might decide to forbid a Gay Parade because the risk of its participants being beaten up is too big. This, in turn, would cause great political turmoil in a c…

EU law doesn't protect gay people, to my knowledge.

The EHCR does.

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