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Girls and Software

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Re: Girls and Software

#101

Post by kstenerud »

simias wrote: post #56
superuser2 wrote: post #12

>Parents are warned to keep kids off the computer This point cannot be overstated. I'd never have been a hacker without vast quantities of unsupervised, unfiltered internet time around age 9-12. The largest enabling step for me was when I got my own laptop which I was free to break (software-wise) and free to take into my room so I could focus away from the distracting noises of the kitchen/living room. Much of even…

I don't agree. Having unlimited access to technological resources is great, I don't think anybody is denying that. But with unlimited net access also comes extremely violent videos, social networks with all kinds of shady types hanging around etc... I really don't think it's responsible to let a 9-12 yo alone on the net in their room. Enabling them to access the net easily while still supervising what they do, giving…

That stuff was there during the BBS days as well. I just don't buy that "seeing bad shit fucks people up forever" bullshit. You wrap your kids in cotton and stifle them throughout their childhoods with your helicopter parenting, and then you have the AUDACITY to complain when they grow up weak and immature?

Re: Girls and Software

#102

Post by pekk »

jt2190 wrote: post #13

I'm not sure I understand what the definition of "hacker" is in this article: > Young women don't magically become technologists at 22. > Neither do young men. Hackers are born in childhood, > because that's when the addiction to solving the > puzzle or building something kicks in to those who've > experienced that "victory!" moment like I had when I > imposed my will on a couple electronic primates. It seems to impl…

You are equivocating falsely been "hacker" and "the industry"

Re: Girls and Software

#103

Post by jsmeaton »

scott_s wrote: post #90
gruseom wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this behavior will be exhibited at a very young age, or not at all That's so obviously false that I doubt she's saying it. I suspect it's more like: these qualities tend to come up in childhood, so if we want to see more of them, that's where we should focus. Everything about your comment ("I figured out HTML on my own") makes me bet you that had these qualities in spades as a kid long before you had a computer. Al…

What I'm trying to describe is the "by 20, it's too late to make a hacker" sentiment, which I do hear people say. So if I did have these qualities, and we're going to identify them after we've already established that I am a hacker, then it must be true that lots of other people also have these qualities, but did not become hackers. My point: the notion that good hackers must be hacking on, and tinkering with, comput…

I think her point was that we can't magically transform random person x, at the age of 22, into a hacker. Not that it can't happen at all, but also that it can't be forced. At least, that's how I chose to take the paragraph. Rarely when someone says "this doesn't happen", they mean it is impossible. Just unlikely.

If I've spent the last 10 years being interested in computers, it is unlikely that at the age of 22 I'm going to walk into a mechanic and decide then and there that I'm going to work on cars for the rest of my life. Does it happen though? Definitely. Is it common? Doubt it.

Re: Girls and Software

#104

Post by 4bpp »

a-saleh wrote: post #94
superuser2 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The litmus test: Is it okay for you to force your child to wear a wire to school? Is it healthy to use the tapes to intervene in her conflicts? If not, then what exactly justified reading texts/facebook messages/emails between friends? >corruptive infos What exactly is corruptive information?

> What exactly is corruptive information? Mostly porn and torture? I remember that when I was visiting my uncle, and he left me alone playing on his computer. I was poking around, until I found a folder containing video of a group of soldiers beheading a guy. I didn't sleep well for a week.

I don't know, a week of lost sleep seems like a pretty cheap price to pay for not growing up into the average "TV shows gory pictures of terrorists blowing up something? I now have PTSD and will vote for any measure that you say will make it less likely that my sensitive eyes are exposed to such revolting material again" member of the American electorate.

I was left to roam the internet freely starting around age 10, saw my fair share of liveleak-style material, lost some sleep over it and grew up into what I like to believe to be a fairly well-adjusted adult who can only shake his head at the sort of things people in his generation experience irrationality-inducing terror over.

Re: Girls and Software

#105

Post by selmnoo »

facepalm wrote: post #76
dev1n wrote: post #67

Growing up watching shows like "Dexter's Laboratory" and "Jimmy Neutron Boy Genius" definitely shaped me as a child into the tech freak I am today. Girls getting barbies thrown at them when they are 12 does not help put girls into the tech sector. We need television shows like "Diane's Laboratory" or "Jennifer Neutron Girl Genius" to get girls interested in tech. Hit 'em when they're young.

Girls don't get barbies thrown at them, they beg for them. The are expensive, too.

Not if they never find out that there exist things called "barbies". We never introduced our girls to barbies or anything -- only cars, legos, etc. etc. and they're more than happy with them.

I think barbies dolls should be outright banned. Why're we teaching our children to worry about their looks at such a young age? That's what barbie dolls are -- "pretty woman", woman with obnoxiously pretty dresses, lipsticks, etc. etc. Why're we normalizing that kind of behavior for children?

Re: Girls and Software

#106

Post by quenlinlom »

Crake wrote: post #36
gms wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite glad you submitted it; thanks. Unfortunate that such an online article could only have been written by a woman, as the likelihood of being on the receiving end of outrage is too high had it come from a man.

You have to be the right gender, race, or sex these days to have an opinion these days. Not judging people based on their sex would be extremely sexist !

Oh please.

Here we have yet another brogrammer crying his mantears whilst trying to attempt satire (which he failed).

It doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman. If you're misogynistic and you are misogynistic. It's that simple.

Re: Girls and Software

#107

Post by quenlinlom »

superuser2 wrote: post #12

>Parents are warned to keep kids off the computer This point cannot be overstated. I'd never have been a hacker without vast quantities of unsupervised, unfiltered internet time around age 9-12. The largest enabling step for me was when I got my own laptop which I was free to break (software-wise) and free to take into my room so I could focus away from the distracting noises of the kitchen/living room. Much of even…

It has to be said though that young girls are still significantly discouraged from computers far more often than young boys.

The systematic misogyny starts from the family. But instead of addressing that, the writer of this article just waves it away as if feminism is some straw-boogey-woman who is "taking over" the IT field.

Re: Girls and Software

#108

Post by piokuc »

Great text by Susan on very important issue. I'm a male software engineer and the predominance of male pears has been the only major downside of being in the business for me ever since i started studying CS almost 20 yrs ago. It should be understood and fixed for the sake of future generations.

Re: Girls and Software

#110

Post by jseliger »

krstck wrote: post #51

Oooh, this was an icy stab right at the core. She's completely right: >Dump her in a situation that operates on different social scripts than she's accustomed to, full of people talking about a subject she doesn't yet understand. Then tell her the community is hostile toward women and therefore doesn't have enough of them, all while showing her off like a prize poodle so you can feel good about recruiting a females T…

When I became a teenager, I got wind that it wasn't something "cool" and got spooked. For someone as insecure as I was, having a hobby that I couldn't really "explain" to normal people was embarrassing.

When I was a teenager, coding or being technical in general wasn't cool either, and most of the people who were involved were or at least seemed insecure and embarrassed. Perhaps the climate in middle / high schools has changed since, but if not, we could also ask: what makes many boys persist in their uncool, embarrassing, low-ish status activity?

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