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Girls and Software

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Re: Girls and Software

#91

Post by superuser2 »

heartbreak wrote: post #87
superuser2 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The litmus test: Is it okay for you to force your child to wear a wire to school? Is it healthy to use the tapes to intervene in her conflicts? If not, then what exactly justified reading texts/facebook messages/emails between friends? >corruptive infos What exactly is corruptive information?

Mmm...tricky. Is it okay for the school to contact you when your child does not show up at school?

School attendance is a legal mandate and you are financially responsible for serious fines if he doesn't. So yes.

This is very different from telling you what he talked about at lunch or what he read in the library.

Re: Girls and Software

#92

Post by parennoob »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #42

> Last year, his school offered a robotics class for girls only. When my son asked why he couldn't join, it was explained to him that girls need special help to become interested in technology, and that if there are boys around, the girls will be too scared to try. And that's why we can't use sexism to fight sexism (or mistakenly enforce the same composition of the general population on self-selected subsets).

I was really thankful that the author specifically expressed this viewpoint, which I'm always afraid to state in real life in case I'm labeled as being sexist.

Special robotics classes for girls are not the way. Making robotics cool again, like space travel was cool in the 60s and 70s, is the answer. Most schools in the US see these pursuits as some kind of uncool dorky stuff, and girls who face a ton more peer pressure than boys for their age, tend to be directed away from them.

Re: Girls and Software

#93

Post by jiggy2011 »

superuser2 wrote: post #75
simias wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. Having unlimited access to technological resources is great, I don't think anybody is denying that. But with unlimited net access also comes extremely violent videos, social networks with all kinds of shady types hanging around etc... I really don't think it's responsible to let a 9-12 yo alone on the net in their room. Enabling them to access the net easily while still supervising what they do, giving…

>Enabling them to access the net easily while still supervising what they do The draw of programming for me was that I do could do interesting work and create something all by myself , by the force of my own mind. I loved it largely because I could do it independently, without mommy and daddy steering. I would have lost interest quickly had it been supervised. There aren't many other creative activities like that - h…

Music is self learn able with instruments like the guitar, using online tabs and videos as a learning resource. There's quite a lot of famous self taught guitarists, although instruction at some stage can be useful.

Sports can be pretty cheap too, playing soccer in a field is a popular activity with poor British youth.

Re: Girls and Software

#94

Post by a-saleh »

superuser2 wrote: post #82
hrktb wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on the fence. I think it's a matter of age, and being able to follow on damaging content/encounters. My kid if too small to go around the web yet, but I have the feeling there will be a point where as parents my wife and I will need to let him do what he wants without asking us anything, but we keep the ability to check the logs of everything he accessed with any device in the house It means being able to have re…

The litmus test: Is it okay for you to force your child to wear a wire to school? Is it healthy to use the tapes to intervene in her conflicts? If not, then what exactly justified reading texts/facebook messages/emails between friends? >corruptive infos What exactly is corruptive information?

> What exactly is corruptive information?

Mostly porn and torture? I remember that when I was visiting my uncle, and he left me alone playing on his computer. I was poking around, until I found a folder containing video of a group of soldiers beheading a guy.

I didn't sleep well for a week.

Re: Girls and Software

#95

Post by marquis »

>Young women don't magically become technologists at 22

I did exactly that. I have a degree in the arts, but always loved physics and pursued that secondarily. I failed physics because I had taken arts instead of mathematics but found that that didn't stop me learning C and building all the arts programs I ever wanted. Quite some years ago now and I was an outlier but it's not too uncommon.

Good schools are now getting girls into robotics and coding before puberty. That's when you get exited. I loved messing with radios and old VHS players when I was a kid, and probably MOST importantly my father was a technologist: exposure at a young age is everything.

Re: Girls and Software

#96

Post by klrr »

simias wrote: post #56
superuser2 wrote: post #12

>Parents are warned to keep kids off the computer This point cannot be overstated. I'd never have been a hacker without vast quantities of unsupervised, unfiltered internet time around age 9-12. The largest enabling step for me was when I got my own laptop which I was free to break (software-wise) and free to take into my room so I could focus away from the distracting noises of the kitchen/living room. Much of even…

I don't agree. Having unlimited access to technological resources is great, I don't think anybody is denying that. But with unlimited net access also comes extremely violent videos, social networks with all kinds of shady types hanging around etc... I really don't think it's responsible to let a 9-12 yo alone on the net in their room. Enabling them to access the net easily while still supervising what they do, giving…

I think you underestimate the intellect of younger people. Teach them that there is shady stuff on the internet and to avoid it rather than restricting them. Restricting them will just make them more curious anyway.

Re: Girls and Software

#97

Post by marquis »

krstck wrote: post #51

Oooh, this was an icy stab right at the core. She's completely right: >Dump her in a situation that operates on different social scripts than she's accustomed to, full of people talking about a subject she doesn't yet understand. Then tell her the community is hostile toward women and therefore doesn't have enough of them, all while showing her off like a prize poodle so you can feel good about recruiting a females T…

That's the reason why classes for girls (not necessarily primarily but directed towards) work so well. Being in a room full of men with few or no women in ANY circumstance is awkward unless you are top of your game.

Re: Girls and Software

#98

Post by superuser2 »

japhyr wrote: post #78
superuser2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OSX so no license keys or activation. I had to ask where the disks were kept the first couple times but I was careful to frame it as "I know what I'm doing, I just need the disks." My parents didn't mind. Also we were covered by AppleCare and I had no problem calling in for myself. This was in the PPC days so no VMs for me. Eventually I got a used PC from my dad's office for like $45 which has probably been through 8…

> Since it is impossible to autonomously do payments on the internet before age 18, my parents' willingness to let me use their credit card I'm a high school teacher, and I teach some intro programming classes once in a while. I teach primarily low-income/ at-risk students, and this is one piece of the puzzle that keeps my students from gaining more real-world experience. It's a hard issue, too, because you can rack…

>That said, there is plenty of learning you can do by building your own server.

I've thought about that, but it really seems to be more expensive and less useful. DigitalOcean is $60/year and already has a server-grade internet connection. I could build a $500 server and host it illegally on my Road Runner connection (256kbps upstream) but that'd be inferior service for a lot more money.

>It's a hard issue, too, because you can rack up a big bill if you think you know more than you do.

This is certainly the case with AWS and a credit card, but on (for example) Linode or DigitalOcean it's pretty hard to "accidentally" spin up a server.

Cheap VPSes are so incredibly cheap though. It'd be great if e.g. middle and high schools would buy hosting for interested students. I doubt it would cost more than a couple grand a year.

Also I really wish there was something like a debit card that kids could buy (without ID verification and all that) at retail stores and spend online. I understand the money laundering concern, but it could be limited to low dollar amounts or something.

Re: Girls and Software

#99

Post by forgottenpass »

mistakoala wrote: post #60

I groaned at what sounded like another SJW article on 'teh evil patriarchy of technology'. I'm glad I read on for an interesting and original viewpoint. More Susan Sons' and fewer Adria Richards', please. The former have meaningful and constructive contributions to make while the latter just make political hay for their own self-interest. As a learner, the perception of an increased emphasis on identity politics is o…

While I don't agree 100% with what you say here, you more or less drive at why I posted it. There are some conversations about gender and tech that, while useful in their own right, also become exclusionary of other possible framing and interpretation of issues and events at hand.

"SJW", while neither an apt nor particularly nice monicker, does (to some) refer to a practicing particular brands of off-putting rhetoric that are uncompromising to a fault. I see people largely in agreement talk past each other because one person's mind is already made up in a way incompatible with someone else's experiences.

A HN commenter once suggested that agreement has become a form of social signaling. I don't know if I believe that, but it would be dangerous and counterproductive because arguments need iteration. If you can't make your case in a way that convinces people with your same goals, you're not going to convince people that don't yet share your goals.

Re: Girls and Software

#100

Post by superuser2 »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #93
superuser2 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Enabling them to access the net easily while still supervising what they do The draw of programming for me was that I do could do interesting work and create something all by myself , by the force of my own mind. I loved it largely because I could do it independently, without mommy and daddy steering. I would have lost interest quickly had it been supervised. There aren't many other creative activities like that - h…

Music is self learn able with instruments like the guitar, using online tabs and videos as a learning resource. There's quite a lot of famous self taught guitarists, although instruction at some stage can be useful. Sports can be pretty cheap too, playing soccer in a field is a popular activity with poor British youth.

Good point on guitar, I guess I was thinking of piano, strings, and voice, which are quite popular where I live.

Sports can be cheap but in extreme cases of (sub)urban sprawl, getting to a field - or the field where an organized game is happening - is pretty difficult without a car. Also you can't really play organized, coached, team sports without your parents signing liability waivers.

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