Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Warsaw, August 1947

facebook.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 86 posts

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#71

Post by ansible »

carlob wrote: post #35
vacri wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare it to US deaths in Vietnam (60,000) and in Iraq/Afghanistan (~7,000). The irony is that for all the warmongering politics of the US, the population are highly sensitive to actually losing soldiers in battle. There were single days in WWI (and the US Civil War) that saw single countries having more combat deaths than the US has seen this century in total. The US public wants wars it can win effortlessly (consc…

This just goes to show how asymmetrical Afghanistan and Iraq are in terms of war. We just don't know what is like to be on the receiving end of war. Think about it: an Australian soldier in Afghanistan has made a choice (maybe forced by her economic condition, sure) to risk her life in Afghanistan. Afghan civilians didn't really have that choice. The estimates for civilian deaths in Iraq are above 100k, around 20k fo…

The estimates for civilian deaths in Iraq are above 100k...

That's just the best estimate for those killed in and around main areas of conflict. With all the ethnic cleansing, and general privation from the destroyed infrastructure of the Iraq nation, the total death toll is estimated to be 1 million or more.

War is more horrible than most people (who haven't directly experienced it) can imagine. We the voting public should not take any decision to go to war lightly. As we have in the past.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#72

Post by Mchl »

giarc wrote: post #69
Mchl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't the HN poster who uploaded these pictures. Here you go, mostly same content from another source: http://pokazywarka.pl/hi4dlh/

Interesting if the original commenter will visit this link. Won't visit Facebook but will visit a random .pl link with a name that means nothing to those who don't speak polish.

For his sake I even checked if the images in that page are not in fact hosted on facebook servers. Still... I'm pretty sure browsing facebook in incognito mode would be enough

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#73

Post by czechooo »

valtih1978 wrote: post #67
czechooo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not know what you are talking about. Search for Katyn massacre. Looking at your tone, you are either very indoctrinated and full of complexes OR it's just a provocation/joke. I prefer to think it's a second one.

Look for manufacturing consent and Noam Chomsky to understand why the facts that I tell seem outlandish to you. He speaks right about indoctrination, the indoctrination that turns white into black and vice-versa. It says about "landowners, saboteurs, factory owners, lawyers, officials and priests". The same cleanup was done in the Soviet Union 10 years earlier. It is class struggle. There is nothing national in this…

ah! I knew you were joking!

Sorry for giving you space for a reply ;)

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#74

Post by PanTardovski »

valtih1978 wrote: post #64
atglawok wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do not abuse words like nazi and do not promote Russian propaganda here, do you argue with a mass murder that was confirmed to be done by Russians ? Or is it also some 'nazi' propaganda ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

I expected when you come up with this piece of Goebbels propaganda in order to justify your nazi wars. The very article you refer confirms that we have a piece of Goebbels propaganda. The polish officers, arrested by Soviet Union, have nothing to do with your "killed 20,000 of its politicians, lawyers, doctors, scientists, artists, clergy, etc" In fact, all politicians, lawyers, doctors, scientists, artists, clergy,…

I don't know that much about Katyn, but Gorbachev and Yeltsin both admitted to this, right? There's no doubt about the documents that they released to the Poles confirming the Soviet orders? What are you talking about?

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#75

Post by valtih1978 »

jedrek wrote: post #70
valtih1978 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expected when you come up with this piece of Goebbels propaganda in order to justify your nazi wars. The very article you refer confirms that we have a piece of Goebbels propaganda. The polish officers, arrested by Soviet Union, have nothing to do with your "killed 20,000 of its politicians, lawyers, doctors, scientists, artists, clergy, etc" In fact, all politicians, lawyers, doctors, scientists, artists, clergy,…

Polish predatroish policies?

Do you mean that the attack of the Soviets by Poland in 1920, when the Western Ukrane was seized by polish fascists, and dividing the Chekoslovakia with Hitler in 1938, inflaming the WWII, was the act of piece? Or, you just deny these facts?

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#76

Post by valtih1978 »

PanTardovski wrote: post #74
valtih1978 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expected when you come up with this piece of Goebbels propaganda in order to justify your nazi wars. The very article you refer confirms that we have a piece of Goebbels propaganda. The polish officers, arrested by Soviet Union, have nothing to do with your "killed 20,000 of its politicians, lawyers, doctors, scientists, artists, clergy, etc" In fact, all politicians, lawyers, doctors, scientists, artists, clergy,…

I don't know that much about Katyn, but Gorbachev and Yeltsin both admitted to this, right? There's no doubt about the documents that they released to the Poles confirming the Soviet orders? What are you talking about?

> There's no doubt about the documents that they released to the Poles confirming the Soviet orders?

Are you so brainwashed that you cannot even read? How there cannot be doubt after http://katynmassakern.blogspot.com/2010/07/katyn-ilyukhins-v... and me talking "the fact that burgeose Russian governemnt manufactures documents to support this Goebbels lie cannot deny the evidence". Do you think that I will believe that those documents happened to be stored in the Yeltsin's personal safe, when he organized the trial against the Communist Party, http://katynmassakern.blogspot.com/2011/01/katyn-mysterious-...? Do you mean that there was nothing more to store in the "closed package no. 1" (google it) in the whole 1000-year Russian history than the "Katyn affair"? What do you think I mean by "burgeose Russian governemnt manufactures documents"? Do you think I mean that _there is no doubt_? Are you crazy?

It would be interesting to investigate what happened in the Western Ukrane in 1941. But, instead of investigation, you demand the russians to be balmed guilty and hide the reason why the Polish intelligence appeared on the Soviet territory in the first place.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#77

Post by valtih1978 »

jedrek wrote: post #68
valtih1978 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 1939 SU "invated the Poland" is a complete nazi nonsense. SU has invateded its own territory, siezed earlier by the fascist Poland, after the polish government ceased to exist. So, it is hard to tell what you are talking about at all. Returning your territories from criminals is a right thing to do, especially in order to save the territory and people from the Gernam Nazi criminals. Stalin did the only right thing…

> SU has invateded its own territory, siezed earlier by the fascist Poland, after the polish government ceased to exist. This territory was agreed upon in the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, so how could the SU move to save territory after the Polish government fell, if it had already agreed to split it up before it fell? Also, if you say that it's the Soviet Union's territory, why was a large part of it returned after WWII…

You is a fascist propaganda. At first, Poland was eager to sign the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Polish_Non-Aggression_P... in 1934 -- watch the photo (Hitler is in power since 1933). June 1939 absolutely nazi germany have signed the pact with Baltic states. Soviet Union did that later, in August 1939. So, who is the real Nazi aggressor? Why do you poke the Molotov-Ribbentrop all the time? Because you are try to conceal the inconvenient truth.

Particularly, the border between USSR and Poland was demarked not by Hitler but by _European democracies (google: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curzon_Line)_. The Molotov-Ribbentrop was innocent, it reclaimed the lands siezed by fascist Poland earlier. In fact SU reclamed that even after the Polish government ceased to exist, to minimize the boold. Only criminals can say that restoring the justice with minimal viktims is a terrible crime act. You is a fascist criminal. Stallin was the last European leader to pack with Hitler. You have forced Stalin to sign the piece treaty with your ally, Hitler.

Communists are the primary enemy of fascism. Fascists were invented in 20-st century to counteract the communism. You felt better with Hitler than with Russian comrades. That is why you askribe your crimes to the others. All what you say is a manipulating hypocracy.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#78

Post by lostlogin »

simonh wrote: post #45
lostlogin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fascinating thing about the Second World War is that several countries weren't fighting for survival, but for victory and power. Surely the big winner was the US. However Britain was in it to win from early on, as survival wasn't really the issue. The richer you were, the better you fared, unsurprisingly.

Survival wasn't really the issue? At the height of the U-Boat campaign we had a only few weeks worth of food supplies left in the country. We were loosing well over half a million tons of ships a month. If Japan had never attacked Pearl Harbour, the US would have just sat on it's hands and watched Britain collapse. Yes we broke the U-Boat codes, but without US ships and aircraft covering the western Atlantic, we woul…

And yet the army was built up and arms manufacturing was built up, at the expense of food production. Troops and tanks were being sent to Africa, even as Germany looked poised to in invade Britian. Yes, it was tight, but Britain was in it to win, not defend. British production outstripped Germany and when the Empire was included, it was vastly superior. It took time to ramp up, but Britain wasn't facing defeat. The tonnage of ships controlled and owned by Britain actually increased (though numbers fell), and additionally those controlled by not owned by Britain also helped. The actual loses weren't that big. In a bad patch, Nov 1940 to June 1941 it was 3.4%. There were later times when it reached similar rates. The British diet was vastly better than those on the continent by and large. Britain wasn't starving.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#79

Post by lostlogin »

vacri wrote: post #46
lostlogin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fascinating thing about the Second World War is that several countries weren't fighting for survival, but for victory and power. Surely the big winner was the US. However Britain was in it to win from early on, as survival wasn't really the issue. The richer you were, the better you fared, unsurprisingly.

The British Empire was rapidly weakening. It didn't have the resources to maintain it's massive navy, and the head-start it had in the Industrial Revolution had waned. Germany was an ascendent power and the UK was no match for it. The UK was very much fighting for survival - the counterbalancing alliances of European powers had been in considerable tension since at least Germany unified. Look what it took to bring Ge…

Britain made more planes than Germany except in 1944, made more tanks, except in 43 and 44 (when imports radically increased. It's navy was growing throughout the war. It out produced Germany in many important measures. The army grew and the workforce grew. Yes, it was hard, but total war was what the Russians and Germany fought, not the British. Casualty figures tell us that.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#80

Post by lostlogin »

Kociub wrote: post #37
vacri wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that the UK was drawn into the war through the alliance it made with Poland in an attempt to contain German acquisitions - the UK was a friend to Poland with no real quarrel. 'Protecting Poland' was their call to war. It's not the greatest stretch of the imagination to consider the UK as doing right by Poland. The Soviets, on the other hand, had a desire for Polish territory.

This is unfortunately not true. Great Britian declared war on Germany, but provided none support to Poland. This was also the case during the Warsaw Uprising. After the war has ended Poland has been sold by under the Russian occupacion. The polish fighter squadrons that took part in the battle of britain were not even allowed to join the wining parade. They were sent home to what was now considered an enemy state. Th…

It wasn't the case with The Uprising. There were serious efforts to help from the air. The Soviets made this hard though. And yes, treatment of Poles (and Cossacks and others) was very bad). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_airlift
Post reply on HN