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67 Signals hasn't changed a thing

67signals.com

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Re: 67 Signals hasn't changed a thing

#51
post #44
post #30

"Making simple software and charging heaps because we are hip and edgy..." Every time I see things such as these I think: 20-something, doesn't understand money ($20/month seems "too much"), doesn't understand business, not much sense of humor either, mostly pissed about other being succesful... The kind of people who write M$ with a dollar sign.

Why are you bragging about making a bunch of uninformed, knee-jerk assumptions about someone you know nothing about? And why is this trash the top comment? Whether or not $20/month is too much does not depend on whether you have $20 to spend or not, it depends on the value you get from that $20. Products with very little value, and which have $0 alternatives that provide more value are not worth $20.

>Why are you bragging about making a bunch of uninformed, knee-jerk assumptions about someone you know nothing about?

You mean I'm in the bad making assumptions about a person making "a bunch of uninformed, knee-jerk assumptions" for other people in the form of a mean "parody" site?

Besides, who told you I "know nothing about" that person? I know what he wrote, and I know the tone he used. And I also have a pretty good sense of the kind of handle he'd use if he were to comment on HN.

>And why is this trash the top comment?

Because people agree and voted for it to be. It's social news site in case you don't know.

>Whether or not $20/month is too much does not depend on whether you have $20 to spend or not, it depends on the value you get from that $20. Products with very little value, and which have $0 alternatives that provide more value are not worth $20.

The value of something doesn't depend on what you say, it depends on what the market is willing to pay for it. Since they have a 10+ year, multi-million business with millions of customers, based on charging what they charge, I'd say the argument is pretty much settled.

If it feels like it ain't worth that much to you, you can use something else. I missed the part when using their service was mandatory. Or do you do parody sites for every "too expensive for me" product you find?

Re: 67 Signals hasn't changed a thing

#52
post #10

Speaking of 37signals. I am looking for a good PM and CRM software. Either a piece of software that does both, or two separate that integrate nicely. Any suggestions? We are a Web company that handles projects including Web, Film, Photography and design. We might be developing one in house if we can't find one that meets our needs.

I'd be extremely surprised if you cannot manage to find one solution that fits your agency's needs from the plethora of SaaS products in those categories.

I'd be extremely surprised if they can. Just because there are a lot of options, doesn't mean there's any good ones. Tons of nearly identical, virtually featureless products does not make it easier to find one that actually does the job.

Re: 67 Signals hasn't changed a thing

#53
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your definition of parody. I think it fits Swiftian parody just fine.

Swiftian parody is not just mean. Actually, with some exceptions (like the "modest proposal"), it's not mean at all. And, most important of all, to fit Swiftian parody it would have to be Swiftian-level good. This is subreddit level humor....

I was about to say the same thing, but I haven't read A Modest Proposal since high school, so I poked around Wikipedia a bit and had lots of fun reading about the kinds of satire.

There's Juvenalian, which "addresses social evil through ridicule" and includes works like 1984, American Psycho, Family Guy, A Modest Proposal, and, I guess, this 67signals thing.

Then there's Horatian, which "playfully criticizes some social vice through gentle, mild, and light-hearted humour" and is a lot of Twain, The Simpsons, Dr. Strangelove, and the Friedisms thing I linked to.

Hard to say what the social evil is that the folks who wrote 67signals say they're fighting against. Possibly success. Possibly some angry comments DHH made when a startup took their code: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/01/31/this-site-mocks-37-...

(Anyway, apologies for the tangent--I went to a liberal arts school and there's a dusty corner of my brain that still likes this stuff.)

Re: 67 Signals hasn't changed a thing

#54

That's not funny or educational or even interesting. It looks like jealousy or unfounded hate. I can't really think of anything 37signals has done to warrant this. They make good products and treat both their employees and customers well. Am I missing something?

I used Basecamp a few years back. It was neither horrible nor great in my opinion.

But, I don't think the software needs to be bad or they need to mistreat people to be parodied. If you can capture an element of something, then exaggerate it into absurdity. it's parody.

Also not so sure about attributing jealousy or hate as the motive here. I mean, it could be, but I just don't know what's on the author's mind (except that he/she clearly believes some things about the company to be absurd).

But, it does strike me that the only things worth parodying, for the most part, are those that either succeed or that fail in some very public or fantastic way.

Re: 67 Signals hasn't changed a thing

#55

That's not funny or educational or even interesting. It looks like jealousy or unfounded hate. I can't really think of anything 37signals has done to warrant this. They make good products and treat both their employees and customers well. Am I missing something?

>They make good products Do they? That isn't my experience. >treat […] their […] customers well Do they? That isn't my experience.

Well, yes, technically when you have no experience with a company or their products "good products and customer service" isn't your experience.

Or, you know, you could provide some kind of details.

Re: 67 Signals hasn't changed a thing

#56

Embarrassingly dumb. Especially considering the fact that they changed their name today: http://37signals.com/ .

It's dated nearly two years ago. What was that about "embarassingly dumb?" http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/01/31/this-site-mocks-37-...

I personally think it was embarrassingly dumb before the name change.

Re: 67 Signals hasn't changed a thing

#57
post #50
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your claim is just as baseless as the one you are responding to, which was pointing out how baseless the original claim "they make good software" was. Judging from the fact that their service has good reviews in major media and millions of users, it doesn't sound anywhere near as baseless. > They heavily censor their forums. Any examples? Surely those mythical people know how to save a screenshot, right?

>Judging from the fact that their service has good reviews in major media and millions of users They have no reviews in major media. They have both good and bad reviews in minor media. The "millions of users" claim is not supported at all. >Any examples? Surely those mythical people know how to save a screenshot, right? Yes, I happen to collect screenshots of things that are well known every time anyone talks to me a…

>They have no reviews in major media. They have both good and bad reviews in minor media.

Well, I don't think PC Magazine, for one, is a "minor media" in the IT industry. Or that being called "best" in your category is a "bad review".

>The "millions of users" claim is not supported at all.

Supported by whom? You mean you don't believe the user numbers they give? Being able to support a 10+ year old company, with 40+ employess, expensive Chicago offices etc, I'd say the "millions of users" claim is just about right. Heck, just a product of Basecamp, Ruby of Rails has had millions of users. Oh, and this Jeff Bezos guy investing in them? I think he knows one thing or two, too.

>random redditard

OK, this is HN. You can now go back into the woodwork.

Re: 67 Signals hasn't changed a thing

#60
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be extremely surprised if you cannot manage to find one solution that fits your agency's needs from the plethora of SaaS products in those categories.

I'd be extremely surprised if they can. Just because there are a lot of options, doesn't mean there's any good ones. Tons of nearly identical, virtually featureless products does not make it easier to find one that actually does the job.

I COMPLETELY agree with this statement. We have been looking around for about a month now, and it's been really hard to distinguish them apart. It's been equally as difficult to find a product that has everything we need.
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