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We are not normal people

justinjackson.ca

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Re: We are not normal people

#111

Post by pbhjpbhj »

workhere-io wrote: post #63
widdershins wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barber: "Almost all my bookings happen on the phone, or via text message."

That's the point: If the barber has a lot of younger customers, the reason that most of the bookings happen on the phone or via text message is that the barber doesn't have a good website set up with a decent booking system that the customers could use instead of the phone. What OP could have told the barber is this: "We'll put up a system that enables your customers to schedule a time automatically - that way you'll…

>plenty of barbers have such a system //

I'm really interested in this. Could you link some?

Re: We are not normal people

#112

Post by dclara »

Working with software product companies, we always debated on the product is "technology driven" or "market driven". Back to the days of using EJB, often times we were technology drive (not all).

That's why we have product team and product manager to work out the requirements before the development team start to prototype and implement. For startup companies, this kind of process may seem too luxury in the early stage, we called it "discover" stage.

Once we define the target market and learn the customer needs, we will build the most compelling features first. We listen, but not tight to specific customer needs, because we know the direction we want to build, and gradually lead the customers toward that end product.

For any new product, customer friction is always there very naturally. That's why we need marketing and sales team to remove the friction. It's a lot easy to say than to do.

Re: We are not normal people

#113

Post by sqrt17 »

pandler wrote: post #104
j_baker wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even think that this is even a case of that. The writer is obviously not a programmer (he even uses the "Some of my best friends are x " line where x is some type of person you are trying to convince people you don't hate). It seems to me that the writer is trying to peg programmers into a hole where all we do is say "We have to do this with the newest CSS Framework using the neatest database and the coolest…

> What bothers me most about this is the idea that programmers are some kind of underclass that just doesn't get "normal" people. The truth is that we're people too who have a lot of the same needs as "normal" people. I think the author was simply trying to articulate a rift that sometimes occurs between a party with a (perceived or actual) problem and the party with solutions for that problem. According to his barbe…

Successful product management is exactly closing that rift. Product management is distinct from either programming (making things) or sales (selling things to people).

The argument made in the article is "you are a programmer. Therefore you don't get product management techniques nor sales. Therefore you should buy my book."

It's a typical sales technique: Creating a sense of inadequacy in your target and right away offering a solution.

If you're cynical, you will notice that there's no guarantee of any kind that the solution you're being sold on actually helps. Because, people good at sales are more likely to be good at selling you random things than to be effective teachers of the knowledge they're claiming for themselves.

patio11 did a lot of good in actually teaching people to look at a market that's not themselves, but there are a lot of people following him who primarily want to make money with e-books because that is their most effective way of monetizing their skills in the absence of any ability to build products.

Re: We are not normal people

#114

Post by nicolax »

I wonder why this is a new topic then. Isn't it pretty established in either Lean Startup or Design Thinking that when building product, we should talk to/interview/research the people who will be using it? Especially in Design Thinking, it's required to do needfinding, which is talking to the barber in this case. And solutions in the brainstorming stage are certainly not confined within software.

We just need to be constantly reminded that our perception and reasoning about the world is subjective and often conscious. As designers, or product builders, we should be willing to understand other people's reasoning, putting aside ours.

Re: We are not normal people

#115

Post by NameNickHN »

What the barber shop owner doesn't realize is that an appointment scheduling software is supposed to reduce phone calls which would decrease the workload of the staff. Also, what if I want to schedule an appointment when the shop is closed?

Re: We are not normal people

#116

Post by amagumori »

Tehnix wrote: post #101
amagumori wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no offense...but you couldn't even reply to him without marketing your book? this also occurred in the OP, where you get to the bottom of his post and it's revealed that the whole thing was supposed to get you interested in his book. this is why i fucking hate marketing. nothing is genuine, everything has an ulterior motive. it destroys peoples' authenticity and trustworthiness.

Really? He answered his parents' question by providing some content from his book that was very relevant to it. He then says that if you're still interested in knowing more, you could buy/get his book. Would you have wanted him to give it for free? Would you rather have he didn't inform him that a book existed that focused on this problem?....

well, this is the point. his intentions are thrown into question. was he simply being helpful, giving advice, and mentioning the title of the book if the parent wanted to get more information? or was he craftily building trust with a helpful comment, enticing the parent into buying his book? who's to say?

real gifts are given unconditionally, with no expectation of anything in return. if you can simply give advice with no marketing, plugging, or bullshit, it shows your intentions are pure. you expect nothing and simply want to better someone else's life. when you market to me, i have to assume that you are using me to make money.

people have to eat out here, but there is an appropriate time and place for marketing your services and products. when you blur the line between who you are as a businessman and who you are as a person, you are severely tarnishing your character imo. (not that the comment was even that bad, but i'm talking about marketing in general)

Re: We are not normal people

#117

Post by ehsanu1 »

eclipxe wrote: post #91
amagumori wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no offense...but you couldn't even reply to him without marketing your book? this also occurred in the OP, where you get to the bottom of his post and it's revealed that the whole thing was supposed to get you interested in his book. this is why i fucking hate marketing. nothing is genuine, everything has an ulterior motive. it destroys peoples' authenticity and trustworthiness.

Such is life my friend. Developing a sense of authenticity and trustworthiness is what separates good marketing from bad marketing. Being opportunistic is bad marketing. But contrast the above post with someone like patio11. We all know him, we respect him (at least I do). If anyone ever needed appointment reminder software or bingo cards, well I know where I'm sending them. That is good marketing. Patrick doesn't en…

It isn't a sales pitch. I read it as such myself, but it looks like it's just a verbatim excerpt - ".. in this book .. " can be taken as both a pitch, and a section from an introductory chapter in the book. An unfortunate coincidence.

Re: We are not normal people

#118

Post by ta_tatata »

There are no normal people. By definition normal people do not exist in the world.

With the title and point of the article being formulated in a way showing a lack of understanding of the matter, it is doubtful the rest of the post is any better.

Re: We are not normal people

#119

Post by ta_tatata »

pessimizer wrote: post #85

I don't know who "we" is, but there's nothing abnormal about programmers as programmers. Currently the profession is dominated by a few narrow demographics which have a limited understanding of people outside of those demographics, but that's a social issue, not one that comes along with technical competence. My major problem with dealing with clients/customers that I'm doing custom work for is that instead of tellin…

You are not a normal person, for there are no such things.

One perceive oneself as not abnormal when one tends to conform to societal norm and peer expectation. It is desirable to not be perceived as abnormal, because abnormality carries a stigma and being perceived as abnormal often leads to rejection.

Re: We are not normal people

#120

Post by peteretep »

amagumori wrote: post #116
Tehnix wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? He answered his parents' question by providing some content from his book that was very relevant to it. He then says that if you're still interested in knowing more, you could buy/get his book. Would you have wanted him to give it for free? Would you rather have he didn't inform him that a book existed that focused on this problem?....

well, this is the point. his intentions are thrown into question. was he simply being helpful, giving advice, and mentioning the title of the book if the parent wanted to get more information? or was he craftily building trust with a helpful comment, enticing the parent into buying his book? who's to say? real gifts are given unconditionally, with no expectation of anything in return. if you can simply give advice wi…

> was he simply being helpful, giving advice, and mentioning > the title of the book if the parent wanted to get more > information? or was he craftily building trust with a > helpful comment, enticing the parent into buying his book? > who's to say?

If the comment was helpful, as you say it was, then who gives a shit?

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