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We are not normal people

justinjackson.ca

101–110 of 137 posts

Re: We are not normal people

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my Technical Blogging book I wrote the following on marketing: -- Correct a Self-Sabotaging Mindset -- Marketing is bullshit. Marketing is evil. Marketing is everything that’s wrong with this world. Marketing is the root of all evil. Marketers should be shot. I have heard all these statements—and plenty more like them. If you agree with any of them, you are not alone in your dislike of marketing. I’ve found that t…

no offense...but you couldn't even reply to him without marketing your book? this also occurred in the OP, where you get to the bottom of his post and it's revealed that the whole thing was supposed to get you interested in his book. this is why i fucking hate marketing. nothing is genuine, everything has an ulterior motive. it destroys peoples' authenticity and trustworthiness.

Really? He answered his parents' question by providing some content from his book that was very relevant to it. He then says that if you're still interested in knowing more, you could buy/get his book. Would you have wanted him to give it for free? Would you rather have he didn't inform him that a book existed that focused on this problem?....

Re: We are not normal people

#102
Steve Jobs took exactly the opposite tack -- he would say things like "People don't know what they want until we tell them" -- and he succeeded with that outlook. I'm not saying the article is wrong, only that it's not a self-evident position.

Chances are a product will succeed or fail for reasons neither the designers nor the customers understand. Consider the personal computer -- the best minds in technology were offered a chance to get in at the start, and nearly all of them turned it down. Hewlett-Packard repeatedly rejected Steve Wozniak's proposals until he quit and developed his ideas with Steve Jobs in a garage. Then IBM created a rather limited knockoff PC, expecting it to serve only as an "entry system" to their main product line, which was large systems. Pretty soon the tail wagged the dog.

And the Internet -- no one saw it coming, even when it was on top of them. No one was able to predict any aspect of that phenomenon, something that remains true.

About people's tastes and choices in entertainment, Hollywood screenwriter William Goldman famously said, "Nobody knows anything". I agree, and I think it applies to technology as well.

The bottom line -- if you ask customers what they want, what they might buy, they won't be able to tell you. I disagreed with Steve Jobs about practically everything, but he was dead right about this.

Re: We are not normal people

#103
post #99

I don't know who "we" is, but there's nothing abnormal about programmers as programmers. Currently the profession is dominated by a few narrow demographics which have a limited understanding of people outside of those demographics, but that's a social issue, not one that comes along with technical competence. My major problem with dealing with clients/customers that I'm doing custom work for is that instead of tellin…

I don't even think that this is even a case of that. The writer is obviously not a programmer (he even uses the "Some of my best friends are x " line where x is some type of person you are trying to convince people you don't hate). It seems to me that the writer is trying to peg programmers into a hole where all we do is say "We have to do this with the newest CSS Framework using the neatest database and the coolest…

yeah it's weird, we are one the one hand said to be an underclass of social rejects, and on the other hand said to be immensely privileged. And on top of that, somehow being losers makes us more privileged, since it keeps normal people who don't want to be losers out of the profession. Go figure.

Re: We are not normal people

#104
post #99

I don't know who "we" is, but there's nothing abnormal about programmers as programmers. Currently the profession is dominated by a few narrow demographics which have a limited understanding of people outside of those demographics, but that's a social issue, not one that comes along with technical competence. My major problem with dealing with clients/customers that I'm doing custom work for is that instead of tellin…

I don't even think that this is even a case of that. The writer is obviously not a programmer (he even uses the "Some of my best friends are x " line where x is some type of person you are trying to convince people you don't hate). It seems to me that the writer is trying to peg programmers into a hole where all we do is say "We have to do this with the newest CSS Framework using the neatest database and the coolest…

> What bothers me most about this is the idea that programmers are some kind of underclass that just doesn't get "normal" people. The truth is that we're people too who have a lot of the same needs as "normal" people.

I think the author was simply trying to articulate a rift that sometimes occurs between a party with a (perceived or actual) problem and the party with solutions for that problem. According to his barbershop example, that problem/solution rift is the result of a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem statement. If I could abstract the article in one sentence, I would say, "If you are trying to solve a problem that you yourself do not have, make sure you actually understand the problem from the perspective of the party you are solving it for before you go building things."

The author may have gone a bit far in generalizing programmers/engineers, but would you agree it is fair to say that it is easy enough for _anyone_ to fall into the aforementioned trap if they are not conscious of it?

An occurring theme I have noticed while speaking with people (not just engineers and/or programmers) is that we have a tendency to project ourselves on other people. I don't think that is a bad thing in moderation (that's a different matter of discourse), but I have had at least two different conversations with entrepreneurs where they simply could not for the life of them understand why someone would rather "just get a job working for someone else" than start their own company. It simply does not register in their world view that someone does not share their way of thinking. My anecdote is tangential at best, but my point is that the object of the article is not to diminish programmers. Rather, it is to elevate the perspective of those subject to a certain myopia that they would otherwise not think to confront.

Re: We are not normal people

#105
In that barber example... selling to the barber directly might make the most sense, but better scheduling software would allow people to self-schedule (well, 'better' for end users). I hate trying to coordinate a time with my barber - his schedule is erratic, mine is erratic sometimes, the place doesn't call me back some times, they don't email, etc.

What is efficient for them as a business is highly inefficient for me as a consumer, and I may end up taking my business elsewhere because of it. I like the guy and he does a good job, but there are other places to go. If any of them make it easier on me to schedule on my terms, I'll go there.

So... yes, it might be easier for the barber to just look at a piece of paper on the wall, does it increase his business? Is he looking for more business, or an easier job?

Re: We are not normal people

#106

In that barber example... selling to the barber directly might make the most sense, but better scheduling software would allow people to self-schedule (well, 'better' for end users). I hate trying to coordinate a time with my barber - his schedule is erratic, mine is erratic sometimes, the place doesn't call me back some times, they don't email, etc. What is efficient for them as a business is highly inefficient for…

Same goes with in-demand restaurants. If I get into a city and want to pick a nice restaurant, am I better off calling around and wasting the time of those booked-out, or using something like OpenTable which shows me what's available?

Some of the premium places will be booked out three months in advance, but then make mention of potential cancellations on their web site contact page. e.g., "Sometimes we get cancellations. Please call us just in case." Seems to be like that would make for a huge amount of wasted staff time dealing with those sorts of queries.

Re: We are not normal people

#107
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no offense...but you couldn't even reply to him without marketing your book? this also occurred in the OP, where you get to the bottom of his post and it's revealed that the whole thing was supposed to get you interested in his book. this is why i fucking hate marketing. nothing is genuine, everything has an ulterior motive. it destroys peoples' authenticity and trustworthiness.

Really? He answered his parents' question by providing some content from his book that was very relevant to it. He then says that if you're still interested in knowing more, you could buy/get his book. Would you have wanted him to give it for free? Would you rather have he didn't inform him that a book existed that focused on this problem?....

This is a real-world example of the pervasiveness of scummy marketing causing even ethical marketing to be met with groans.

Re: We are not normal people

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barber: "Almost all my bookings happen on the phone, or via text message."

That's the point: If the barber has a lot of younger customers, the reason that most of the bookings happen on the phone or via text message is that the barber doesn't have a good website set up with a decent booking system that the customers could use instead of the phone. What OP could have told the barber is this: "We'll put up a system that enables your customers to schedule a time automatically - that way you'll…

Agree completely.

If voice is crucial, save yourself answering the phone with some sort of Twilio setup to handle the majority of calls with a series of questions about timing and duration of appointment. In the preamble mention online bookings and see if the majority stick with phone.

I know I'd vastly prefer a web booking system for almost everything - restaurants, car service, medical appointments, etc.

Re: We are not normal people

#109
If the business is risky (which is probably is), use safer tech choices. If the business seems boring, use a few extra bleeding edge solutions to engage us technical folks.

Re: We are not normal people

#110

In that barber example... selling to the barber directly might make the most sense, but better scheduling software would allow people to self-schedule (well, 'better' for end users). I hate trying to coordinate a time with my barber - his schedule is erratic, mine is erratic sometimes, the place doesn't call me back some times, they don't email, etc. What is efficient for them as a business is highly inefficient for…

IME people will do things like book online and then call because they don't trust the booking app. And that's the people that will bother to fill out the form rather than just ring up anyway.

If you're relying on an online system too it has to be absolutely solid - which means expense. Or at least more expense than a wall-calendar or a paper diary [book].

It's hard to have an over-view of, say, the next couple of months work with an online system - a big wall-calendar makes things easier to visualise. Of course you could have a massive touch-screen computer ...

If you're running a salon, with multiple barbers then I can see it being cost-effective to try and have customers self-schedule but it seems for a single barber that they'd have to be very up-market to make it worth while.

Would you go to a worse barber so you can schedule online instead of by phone? Would you pay more, how much, to be able to schedule online?

Personally if I use a barber's it's a simple drop-in service.

[Any suggestions for an appointments booking system to check out?]

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