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IE7 users, we need to talk…

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Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…

#171

Post by acdha »

mgkimsal wrote: post #169
acdha wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doesn't MSIE8 have a MSIE7 compatability mode that basically runs the IE7 rendering engine in a wrapper Of course not, that was obviously the right way to implement this so they had to do something worse first. IE7 compatibility mode works plausibly well for visual display but as eonwe's link pointed out there are still some key differences. That link, however, doesn't really mention the worst part: IE8-as-IE7 does…

"Oracle support actually called me asking if they could redistribute my work to other customers!" What did you tell them?

Yes, given that I'd already released the code on a couple of customer lists but it was tempting to ask for a license fee, particularly given the arrogant first-line support we'd had to slog through to report the bug. “We don't do Microsoft's beta-testing for them. We'll start testing after IE8's released” – a week after the release

Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…

#172

Post by Justsignedup »

csmithuk wrote: post #123
mjolk wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These are now no longer supported by the vendors with no upgrade path so people are stuck with IE7 whilst applications are rewritten or disposed of...I know a company that has taken 4 years to rewrite an ERP system away from this model. The compatibility flag deals with some rendering issues but it doesn't change the script engine or the ActiveX hosting situation. The company should light a fire under the ass of the…

In the spirit of maintaining my argument... The company should light a fire under the ass of their vendor or development department if they're being forced to live with some very serious security risks. The vendor doesn't exist any more. This is a realistic problem. They had source escrow which results in them hiring a development team to port it. This has taken 4 years, including retraining all 5000 users and portin…

- still cheaper than SAP/Oracle

HAHA! Yes! that shit is ungodly expensive.

Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…

#173

Post by NamTaf »

aaronem wrote: post #136
NamTaf wrote: post #30

Related: Kogan (an electronics vendor here in AU) has an IE7 tax on all of their products to pay for the upkeep required to develop supporting IE7. This follows the succesful implementation of an IE6 tax some years ago. http://www.kogan.com/au/blog/new-internet-explorer-7-tax/

It's an interesting idea, I suppose, if a bit smug; I've always found it sufficient just to pop up a note saying something along the lines of "Look, I'm sure you have a good reason for using IE 7, and I'm not going to tell you that you shouldn't. But it's no longer reasonably possible to test in that version of the browser, and I therefore can't warrant everything on this site will work properly in it; I don't partic…

I've no idea; I've never actually purchased any Kogan product. It nevertheless made news when they released the tax and they repeated the process so I guess it worked out for them?

(The lesson here is that many people will probably just blindly pay whatever the final cost is without checking the itemised receipt and why it costs what it does)

Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…

#174

Post by csmithuk »

PopsiclePete wrote: post #167
csmithuk wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually no, you are completely wrong. It might be a popular opinion but it's wrong. Some facts: 1. Firstly, there are a couple of COM APIs that were broken with IE8 which mean that some horrible "intranet applications" that use ActiveX won't work with IE8 properly. They worked fine with IE6 and IE7. These are now no longer supported by the vendors with no upgrade path so people are stuck with IE7 whilst applications…

Your argument applies to anything that has been obsoleted. What about the poor bastards who can't afford a car and depend on a horse and buggy? The highways are too dangerous for them. What about those "long-term" planners who standardizes their IT infrastructure on Jazz drives? And the poor sods who think all new laptops are awful because of that one printer they bought in 1987 that needs a serial port? IE7 and COM…

You obviously have no idea what COM is. Everything in windows is COM. It's not some one off enterprise thing that is obsolete.

Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…

#175

Post by SimHacker »

csmithuk wrote: post #123
mjolk wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These are now no longer supported by the vendors with no upgrade path so people are stuck with IE7 whilst applications are rewritten or disposed of...I know a company that has taken 4 years to rewrite an ERP system away from this model. The compatibility flag deals with some rendering issues but it doesn't change the script engine or the ActiveX hosting situation. The company should light a fire under the ass of the…

In the spirit of maintaining my argument... The company should light a fire under the ass of their vendor or development department if they're being forced to live with some very serious security risks. The vendor doesn't exist any more. This is a realistic problem. They had source escrow which results in them hiring a development team to port it. This has taken 4 years, including retraining all 5000 users and portin…

The people who demanded software with a user interface that would run for 30 years without modification were wildly unrealistic fools, and the people who told them they could do it and took their money for it were unethical scammers.

Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…

#176

Post by SimHacker »

ideonexus wrote: post #139
csmithuk wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the spirit of maintaining my argument... The company should light a fire under the ass of their vendor or development department if they're being forced to live with some very serious security risks. The vendor doesn't exist any more. This is a realistic problem. They had source escrow which results in them hiring a development team to port it. This has taken 4 years, including retraining all 5000 users and portin…

This. This. This. Thank you for explaining the reality of the situation. I've worked with lots of different companies over the last 20 years with lots of legacy intranet systems that are too large, complex, and customized to make upgrading them anything less than a multi-million dollar multi-year endeavor, and yet there's always someone who says, "Just rewrite the thing in [favorite framework]!" I've seen some progra…

Since when was it a good idea to develop a system that locked users into an antiquated browser, and then insist decades later that all people using that application also use the same antiquated browser for everything else they do?

Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…

#177

Post by hrktb »

pekk wrote: post #103
hrktb wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can take it from the other end. These employees are locked on IE7/8 because there's not enough external forces to make it a business issue. When they won't be able to use critical resources because of their browser or OS, the upgrade will just happen, how painful and costly it will be (as long as it's less costly than not accessing the said resources)

If this were python, people would be arguing that IE8 does nothing new and maybe we should fork IE7 and continue using that forever

Actually I agree with this line of thinking. I we could in fact fork IE7, replace it at the system level and people were enthusiastic enough to patch bugs and security holes forever, why not.

Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…

#178

Post by rmc »

moya wrote: post #166
rmc wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they can. The usually use Google as a browser.

When I recently asked my grandfather about his browser preference, he said Yahoo. I came to realize that he believes Yahoo IS the web; it's his start page on IE.

No, IE is what he uses for the internet. His browser is Yahoo.

Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…

#179

Post by iopq »

davedx wrote: post #97
pilif wrote: post #71

> IE7 users make up 1.22% of our traffic right now, and this will decline as more computers are upgraded and can use modern browsers. No computer exists that is able to run IE7 but not IE8. And because IE7 came out way past the "optimized for IE" age, I doubt there is software around that requires 7 and doesn't work with 8. This is in contrast to 6 which is what IE was stuck in for years, so software began depending…

I am pretty sure that these IE7 users (users of NursingJobs.us) are probably browsing from a hospital, where I know for a fact IT policies can be just as bad, if not worse, than at large corporations. I don't think the users have a choice here (besides using a different computer at the hospital or surfing from home).

Or, you know, opening the site in their phone.

Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…

#180

Post by mgkimsal »

acdha wrote: post #171
mgkimsal wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Oracle support actually called me asking if they could redistribute my work to other customers!" What did you tell them?

Yes, given that I'd already released the code on a couple of customer lists but it was tempting to ask for a license fee, particularly given the arrogant first-line support we'd had to slog through to report the bug. “We don't do Microsoft's beta-testing for them. We'll start testing after IE8's released” – a week after the release

"We don't do Microsoft's beta-testing for them."

Wow... that really assumes a lot on their part to have that attitude. Like... MS will give a rat's ass about how some crappy Oracle app will work in their latest browsers. Or that anyone will take Oracle's response of "report this bug to MS" six months later as useful. But... this is probably the same attitude other big vendors have about Oracle's stuff too.

Wow...

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