> We are offering to buy a new computer with a modern browser for any of our customers who are stuck with IE7 Great PR, since practically no-one is going to take them up on the offer. If you're on IE7 you're probably on it because MegaCorp's Intranet Application '02 Enterprise Edition doesn't work on anything else. Meaning the new computer will break their LOB application. It's also possible it won't cost them any mo…
IE7 users, we need to talk…
121–130 of 182 posts
Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can respect your advice in this context with regards to the cloud, but I'm not so sure about web technology in general, if by web you mean HTML5/JS/CSS3. If you download Firefox 26 today along with your favourite OS and store it on a USB stick, you can restore it in 10 years an run the exact same web applications. That's not really technologically different from storing .NET Framework 4.0 or Java8 on USB stick, to…
Yes by web I mean HTML5, JS and CSS3, REST and HTTP/SPDY. Yes I can snapshot everything if I want but the problem with the web is that it is a general purpose tool. It should be a single portal into everything both local and remote sites and applications. Unfortunately, the rate of change is incredibly large for Internet-facing applications. Intranet-facing applications are left behind. As browsers evolve, which they…
This could be an argument for buying in cloud services (which you expect to be updated and maintained as technology evolves) rather than building solutions internally. Not always an option but where it is this seems like a good argument to buy rather than build, and if possible buy from a company which seems keen to move with the times and allow you to upgrade your browser in future without fear of breaking something
Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually no, you are completely wrong. It might be a popular opinion but it's wrong. Some facts: 1. Firstly, there are a couple of COM APIs that were broken with IE8 which mean that some horrible "intranet applications" that use ActiveX won't work with IE8 properly. They worked fine with IE6 and IE7. These are now no longer supported by the vendors with no upgrade path so people are stuck with IE7 whilst applications…
>These are now no longer supported by the vendors with no upgrade path so people are stuck with IE7 whilst applications are rewritten or disposed of...I know a company that has taken 4 years to rewrite an ERP system away from this model. The compatibility flag deals with some rendering issues but it doesn't change the script engine or the ActiveX hosting situation. The company should light a fire under the ass of the…
The company should light a fire under the ass of their vendor or development department if they're being forced to live with some very serious security risks.
The vendor doesn't exist any more. This is a realistic problem. They had source escrow which results in them hiring a development team to port it. This has taken 4 years, including retraining all 5000 users and porting data. This isn't some shitty TODO list app or an Intranet - it's a full ERP with over 2 million lines of code and 500Gb of raw non-binary data. And yes this is still cheaper to run than SAP/Oracle.
Why are you supporting software that is a quarter of a century old? If it has undergone significant rewrites to work on those new-fangled color monitors, then you understand why things need to be upgraded.
Because the 30 year paid for and guaranteed support lifecycle isn't over yet. Not only that, it's tied to the specific hardware platform which is an embedded 80286. It doesn't have a monitor attached - it has a 40x8 text LCD screen and an RS232 port. New requirements and bugs do appear.
What is "non-engineering background trendy startup pushing culture" supposed to mean? While HN has a charlatan element, you can't legitimately think that the startup culture here isn't dominated by engineers.
I use the phrase engineer loosely with respect to software as it has in the last decade or so come to mean a different thing. It's gone from individual who carefully plans and creates something with meticulous attention to detail and extensive knowledge of requirements to individual who makes something with little thought. Note: this isn't every case but it changes the meaning of the word, much as you can say "I love you" too much...
Do you also scream "la la la" while the tips of your fingers are lodged in your ears whenever in architecture meetings? A web browser is an ideal consumer (ubiquitous, cross-platform, cheap) of a large number of business applications and high availability demands writing software that's internet-aware (that feels so strange to even have to type).
Yes, it's actually my job to ensure that due diligence is done and put good engineering standards and technology in place. La la la doesn't cut it but I have to think ahead 20 years in some cases and make a call. If something doesn't make sense in that timescale, then it gets discarded. Your personal opinion isn't necessarily that of a risk assessment.
It sounds like your perception of the industry is antiquated. A 10 year cycle without maintenance to keep the codebase secure/running on modern hardware/platforms?
Industry? There are two industries at the moment. The one in the technology press and everywhere else. I firmly circulate in the latter. There is not a noisy presence but a large and realistic one that makes critical cogs turn behind the scenes. Whether or not this is "antiquated" or not is purely conjecture.
Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes by web I mean HTML5, JS and CSS3, REST and HTTP/SPDY. Yes I can snapshot everything if I want but the problem with the web is that it is a general purpose tool. It should be a single portal into everything both local and remote sites and applications. Unfortunately, the rate of change is incredibly large for Internet-facing applications. Intranet-facing applications are left behind. As browsers evolve, which they…
"Unfortunately, the rate of change is incredibly large for Internet-facing applications. Intranet-facing applications are left behind. As browsers evolve, which they do rapidly, unpredictably and without compromise[1] a disparity grows until you need two browsers." This could be an argument for buying in cloud services (which you expect to be updated and maintained as technology evolves) rather than building solution…
This isn't really an option for a lot of people.
Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#125So I can sign up now, to receive my free PC?
Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
You've come to exactly the wrong conclusion. web sites from 1992 still work on browsers today. it's IE proprietary activex stuff that's broken and changing rapidly.
Actually no they don't unless they are a really small subset of HTML/CSS. The box model was broken for years, don't even get me started on tables, JavaScript is the most loosely defined language to have ever existed, there have been several different document parser models (HTML, XHTML, HTML5) it's unreal. At best, most browsers these days estimate what they are doing, diving into some wierd mode full of edge cases p…
Sites following standards should still work. While we have different parsers, they should all be supported today.
NaCl is not a standard, and only works in Chrome, which I can't see changing. ActiveX is a proprietary IE extension, and will never work outside IE. Same with VB script, same with Dart etc.
I had to port an application to IE7 last week, and it works fine in all browsers that has come out since. And this is a EmberJS app using ajax heavily. The web is a great place, as long as you stick to the standards and nothing but the standards. Luckily, the standards are evolving, meaning you can do more and more within the standards, without tying yourself to browser-specific extensions which was the problem in the early IE days.
Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#127> We are offering to buy a new computer with a modern browser for any of our customers who are stuck with IE7 Great PR, since practically no-one is going to take them up on the offer. If you're on IE7 you're probably on it because MegaCorp's Intranet Application '02 Enterprise Edition doesn't work on anything else. Meaning the new computer will break their LOB application. It's also possible it won't cost them any mo…
I assumed the whole point of the offer was that they'd be able to run both computers. The old works-with-our-"enterprise"-software computer is kept alongside the new web-browsing computer.