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We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

startupsanonymous.com

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Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#121

Post by na85 »

philjr wrote: post #75
na85 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why do you care? You know, some personality types cannot help but be concerned with how they're perceived by others. They're hardwired that way. It's the classic misunderstanding between extraverts and introverts.

People who don't care about other people's opinions aren't that common and aren't called extroverts. They're generally called sociopaths :-)

>People who don't care about other people's opinions aren't that common and aren't called extroverts.

Actually the definition of extraversion is deriving gratification from that which is outside the self, so I'd say it's actually introverts who are less likely to care what others think.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#122

Post by alxjrvs »

piratebroadcast wrote: post #3

Get over it and work for someone else, run a few side projects/experiments on the weekend and after hours. Your wife is counting on you.

I came here to make this comment. I completely sympathized (and still do) for his position - but the luxury of something like "Not working for someone else" is the first to go when you are in dire straits. If you have debt, a home, and people who count on you, you take whatever work you can find. I'd call up Chuck E. Cheese and see if I could get my first job back before I would decide to just fail on my responsibilities.

When your luck is down, the room for luxury is low. "Not working for someone else" is a ridiculously large one, and your wife is not in the wrong for thinking similarly.

Still, to be constructive: Consider work that can sustain your responsibilities, albeit at a non-optimal rate. You founded a startup, a task that requires endlessly marketable skills in a growing field. It ended, and perhaps it ended poorly - but you can, and will, endure.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#123

Post by ttcbj »

tunesmith wrote: post #58
JoshTriplett wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of LLCs turn themselves into S Corps, because (a) there's an old sketchy tax dodge about self-employment/FICA tax you can do as an S Interesting. Got a pointer to details on that?

It's not as sketchy as it used to be, due to some rules changes in the last few years. As a one-person S-Corp, you run payroll and you are your own employee. You can set your salary, and you can also pay yourself in distributions. Salary is subject to FICA, distributions are not. Both are subject to income tax. When you pay yourself salary, your "personal" side pays its half of the FICA, and your "business" side pays…

I agree with the analysis above, with one addition: a big reason to pay yourself more at any owners only profitable small business is to max out a contribution to a 'individual 401k', sep-ira, or similar. The rules vary, but if your 'salary' is in the $250k ballpark, you can contribute up to $51k in additional money to a tax deferred retirement plan. Just like a 401k, it grows tax free.

Most SS taxes are capped just above $100k, and if you own a tech company it's pretty hard to argue you salary should be below that, so the SS angle is limited. But tax free compounding on $51k/yr is a significant benefit.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#125

Post by ghc »

tptacek wrote: post #99
patio11 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to Thomas being right about employee wages being able to "pierce the veil" in many states, they're the people most at risk in this situation, so you owe it to them to make sure they're taken care of. It's the one circumstance where I would backstop a company problem with personal funds. (If your company was also behind on e.g. rent or hosting, on the other hand, that risk was priced into contractual terms…

The dumbest thing I've ever done in my career was to start a "founders don't take salary" company after earning a windfall from the sale of the last company I'd been at. Most companies fail. That company was no exception. The personal cost was spectacular. Most HN'ers seem to be in their mid-20s. Something you'll learn when you cross 30 is that time is more valuable than money. You'll never get the years you spend ch…

Yup, if only someone had been there to stop me from doing the same. I poured everything into a failing company because I couldn't bear the thought of failure or working for someone else.

I even put in the money I'd set aside for the IRS, telling myself I'd get it back as soon as a big contract we were working on came through. And then it didn't.

Failure is always an option. The aftermath just keeps getting worse the longer you stave it off.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#126

Post by peterjancelis »

300bps wrote: post #117
omegote wrote: post #91

> I can’t imagine working for somebody else. I wish my wife understood that. Seriously?

In fairness, I'm sure Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Larry Ellison couldn't imagine working for somebody else either.

Sure but they earned that right.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#127

Post by skunkworks »

tptacek wrote: post #99
patio11 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to Thomas being right about employee wages being able to "pierce the veil" in many states, they're the people most at risk in this situation, so you owe it to them to make sure they're taken care of. It's the one circumstance where I would backstop a company problem with personal funds. (If your company was also behind on e.g. rent or hosting, on the other hand, that risk was priced into contractual terms…

The dumbest thing I've ever done in my career was to start a "founders don't take salary" company after earning a windfall from the sale of the last company I'd been at. Most companies fail. That company was no exception. The personal cost was spectacular. Most HN'ers seem to be in their mid-20s. Something you'll learn when you cross 30 is that time is more valuable than money. You'll never get the years you spend ch…

I'm not a huge fan of Rich Dad Poor Dad and the cult of Kiyosaki, but that was the first place I heard about the adage "pay yourself first".

I think a lot about that, not just in financial terms, but emotional as well. If you can't take care of yourself, you won't be able to sustain taking care of other things, no matter whether those other things are businesses, employees, personal bills, or loved ones.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#128

Post by kordless »

peterjancelis wrote: post #126
300bps wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, I'm sure Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Larry Ellison couldn't imagine working for somebody else either.

Sure but they earned that right.

They earned that right, in part, by imagining they couldn't work for someone else either.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#129

Post by Grokit »

I'd say the best thing you can do is learn the lesson that you should have had a contingency plan for this situation. Particularly since failure is the most likely outcome of any startup. I know though, that only happens to the 'other' guys.
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