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We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

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Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#31

Post by JoshTriplett »

tptacek wrote: post #27
ye wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted, i'm an idiot]

S Corps are limited liability corporations. Lots of LLCs turn themselves into S Corps, because (a) there's an old sketchy tax dodge about self-employment/FICA tax you can do as an S, and (b) it's easier to grant employees equity in an S than an LLC. (You're not an idiot.)

> Lots of LLCs turn themselves into S Corps, because (a) there's an old sketchy tax dodge about self-employment/FICA tax you can do as an S

Interesting. Got a pointer to details on that?

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#32

Post by na85 »

tptacek wrote: post #18

Been there. * If your payables and debts are all in the company's name, nobody is coming for your house. The likelihood that your business was going to die before you could pay all your debts was priced into your contracts. If you have employees, pay them and get them off your books first; employee wages are, depending on the state you're in, the one likely exception to that rule. * If they were in your name, well, t…

>Why do you care?

You know, some personality types cannot help but be concerned with how they're perceived by others. They're hardwired that way. It's the classic misunderstanding between extraverts and introverts.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#33

Post by DanielBMarkham »

It's not as bad as you think. You're alive. You have your health (hopefully). Tomorrow you'll most likely be alive and still have your health. This is the starting point.

Those that love you came along for the ride. If you tried as hard as you could, and you took this gamble with their blessing, you do not owe them an apology -- although it wouldn't hurt to give one. They'll still love you and you'll still be making decisions together.

Debt is bad, but they don't throw you in jail for being in debt, at least in the states. Do some studying on dealing with creditors. It's a game like any other game, and it helps if you know the rules. Plenty of folks in debt who are living happy and fulfilled lives. It's not the end of the world.

As to whether you'll be viewed as a failure or not, this depends on your peers and your culture. I suggest you hang out with people who view this as a badge of honor. Life sucks enough without having friends who stomp on you while you're down.

Family is another matter. Can't pick your family. But you can set some ground rules for interacting with them. If you need money from them, be prepared to do things you wouldn't normally do. After all, it's only fair to let them drive a bit if you're needing their help.

It's nothing but a thing. It can be hugely disasterous, or it can be a slight bump in the road. The difference is all between your ears, inside your head. You get to decide how to view this part of your life -- great adventure continues or yet another failure. I suggest you choose wisely.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#34

Post by patio11 »

tptacek wrote: post #18

Been there. * If your payables and debts are all in the company's name, nobody is coming for your house. The likelihood that your business was going to die before you could pay all your debts was priced into your contracts. If you have employees, pay them and get them off your books first; employee wages are, depending on the state you're in, the one likely exception to that rule. * If they were in your name, well, t…

In addition to Thomas being right about employee wages being able to "pierce the veil" in many states, they're the people most at risk in this situation, so you owe it to them to make sure they're taken care of. It's the one circumstance where I would backstop a company problem with personal funds. (If your company was also behind on e.g. rent or hosting, on the other hand, that risk was priced into contractual terms, like Thomas said. I'd generally prefer to make vendors whole where possible but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.)

With regards to your own situation: you're in the best hiring market in the history of ever. Reach out to your incubator's network and you'll have attractive job offers starting as early as you can accept them. That isn't the whole of the solution set: Big Daddy G and the rest of the tech industry are hiring like mad, too, and they are also throwing around signing bonuses large enough to cover your last few months of salary nonpayment.

P.S. to other HNers: "And then we didn't pay ourselves salary" strikes me as something I hear from a lot of failed funded startups which magnifies the personal financial risk of doing them significantly without meaningfully increasing the chance you'll pull things through. I'd strongly consider not doing that, again, unless the alternative is missing payroll for your other employees.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#35

Post by diydsp »

yeah, my thoughts echo what most other people said: just keep your eyes wide open and observant so you can use this experience for next time! e.g. keep a journal and write stuff down so you remember...

I was at a code review recently with several people who had clearly never been through a major failure such as a start up going under (i've been through several...) and the difference in our viewpoints was apparent to me. This is valuable experience you're getting.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#36

Post by perishabledave »

jonhmchan wrote: post #8

This is a dark time, but you can work for someone else. Most of us do.

Agreed. It's about priorities, if he values his family more than the comfort/luxury/whatever-it-may-be of self-employment then you do what you have to do; not saying it would be easy.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#38

Post by protomyth »

tptacek wrote: post #27
ye wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted, i'm an idiot]

S Corps are limited liability corporations. Lots of LLCs turn themselves into S Corps, because (a) there's an old sketchy tax dodge about self-employment/FICA tax you can do as an S, and (b) it's easier to grant employees equity in an S than an LLC. (You're not an idiot.)

I thought part of the problem with LLCs was a state issue?

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#39

Post by poulsbohemian »

About 18 months ago I was laid off from an executive position at a company I'd been with about 5 years. At the same time, I was trying to bootstrap a business on the side, I'm the sole breadwinner in our household, three little kids, and I had a house that was underwater that we couldn't sell due in large part to all the foreclosures in the area that were the competition. To make it worse, we had moved to a very remote, rural area for family reasons, so had two houses to cover, and zero job possibilities anywhere in the area. Eighteen months later, that side project has folded (which I'm ok with), the other house is sold, and I'm doing well consulting (and with minimal travel). Will your story 18 months from now be rosy and happy? I don't know, but I suspect if you are the kind that would take the risk to start up a business, you are the kind that will hustle to do whatever it takes to first reach a point of survival and then the road back to thriving.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#40

Post by flyinglizard »

How you deal with the process and its fallout will be a defining moment for you as a person. Be upfront, be honest, and don't worry to much. Life goes on. You're in the best place and time there ever existed to fail and move on.

The best advice I can give you is that the sky will clear the moment you absolve yourself of the responsibilities. You'll be a free, earning man again. Things will only look up, and very quickly the ideas will start flowing again.

Take your wife for a talk. Explain to her how it's going to be, and that you'll be looking for a job the moment you've turned off the lights. You will have some peace, comfort and certainty soon that will allow you to think clearly, and later on, establish a learning process of everything you've gone through.

Someone around these parts said that the most difficult part of being an entrepreneur is managing your own psychology. It's time you get a hold on yours and own the situation.

Good luck!

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