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Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

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Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#71

Post by humanrebar »

rtpg wrote: post #50

I know how a lot of us like to condemn "political correctness" or whatnot, but saying something crass (and , honestly, I've never seen someone use GTFO in a non-crass situation), where half of the shock value is just the language, is pretty pointless. There's a lot of stuff out there by comedians about how saying "fuck" is probably the cheapest way to get laughs. It's pretty much cheating. At least saying your server…

I don't think GTFO is as crass as the actual word 'fuck'. FUBAR, WTF, PITA, and SOL are certainly colloquial and arcane, but I don't believe they're considered swear words per se (maybe WTF).

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#72

Post by SDGT »

rodgerd wrote: post #45
batbomb wrote: post #5

Dennis Ritchie: “So fsck was originally called something else” Question: “What was it called?” Dennis Ritchie: "Well, the second letter was different"

And yet I've always pronounced it "fossick". Which seems appropriate for what it does (fossicking around the disk, looking for all the lost bits).

I've always said "F-Sock"

No reason, just looked right. Plus my manager probably wouldn't like me saying things like "I just need to fuck this disk really quick."

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#73

Post by Crito »

humanrebar wrote: post #65
icambron wrote: post #28

I think this is a good change because GOAWAY is simpler, more obvious, and has a tone matching the actual operation. Plus, the har-har pretense that GTFO means "General termination of future operations" is childish. With that out of the way, the pearl-clutching about the word "fuck" and how unprofessional it is irritates me. We have this weird notion that it's OK for us to curse individually but that there's this wid…

You don't curse around people for the same reason you chew with your mouth closed... to be polite. That is, you do it out of consideration for others' feelings. It doesn't matter if you understand why someone could find something offensive or if you meant anything by it. Similarly, it's unprofessional to use other offensive words (such as sexist or racist terms, even the ones that aren't bleeped out in popular media)…

Hold up, the reason I don't chew with my mouth open is that people don't want to see my chewed up food (basically pre-vomit).

The reason why I do feel comfortable swearing is because people actually don't have their feelings damaged or hurt by it.

The reason I don't insult people is because people actually do have their feelings hurt by it.

The reason I don't use misogynistic or racist language (this notably includes a few choice "swear words") is because people actually do have their feelings hurt by it.

Three of these are rational taboos because people actually are bothered by them. The other is an irrational taboo, a relic that use to be rational but hasn't been for decades. Not using the word "fuck" is on the same level as wearing a tie to work, there is no remaining reason to do it outside of tradition. Not chewing with your mouth open, or not using misogynistic swear words, is more on the level of putting on underwear and pants before going to work. You do it for the benefit of others, not solely out of tradition.

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#74

Post by gaius »

Crito wrote: post #68
gaius wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately HTTP 2.0 is like IPv6, no-one actually cares. Having said that, people do get upset about 0xDEADBEEF and 0xCAFEBABE, those people need to get lives. Or come up with some other words using only 6 letters.

I can see how 0xCAFEBABE might cause issues in the modern tech community, but 0xDEADBEEF? Do they just hate hexspeak in general?

Vegans.

I'll wager someone out there, perhaps unwittingly, has 0xDEADBABE in their binary, God help them if the twitterati finds out.

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#75

Post by nbm »

I'm surprised nobody has brought up that this was originally called GOAWAY in the spec, and that it was only renamed from GOAWAY to GTFO five days ago. It's not like it was always named GTFO or that people are remotely attached to it. In fact, people involved in the process (ie, the working group mailing list) only heard about it after it was renamed.

(I realise that's because this isn't a protocol-related issue, only a documentation one, but my argument is that there's no real impact in the change back.)

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#76

Post by dllthomas »

Crito wrote: post #73
humanrebar wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't curse around people for the same reason you chew with your mouth closed... to be polite. That is, you do it out of consideration for others' feelings. It doesn't matter if you understand why someone could find something offensive or if you meant anything by it. Similarly, it's unprofessional to use other offensive words (such as sexist or racist terms, even the ones that aren't bleeped out in popular media)…

Hold up, the reason I don't chew with my mouth open is that people don't want to see my chewed up food (basically pre-vomit). The reason why I do feel comfortable swearing is because people actually don't have their feelings damaged or hurt by it. The reason I don't insult people is because people actually do have their feelings hurt by it. The reason I don't use misogynistic or racist language (this notably includes…

I have definitely known people actually bothered by cursing, though I have every expectation they are not as prevalent as they once were. I don't know quite what the prevalence is, and I don't know what portion of people need to be bothered by something for it to effect your default behavior. Obviously, if you're in a group you know to have individuals (or not) that are offended any behavior and you wish to avoid (or not) offending those individuals, act accordingly.

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#77

Post by Crito »

Symmetry wrote: post #67
ville wrote: post #61

I think this episode and the recent brouhaha from someone naming a CLI "bro" have shown that an attempt at humor in naming things generally just diverts the attention from the technology to other things.

It's more that naming things is one of the two hardest things in CS, along with concurrency and off by one errors. But seriously, there are lots of clever names that everybody loves, it's just that it's easy to get clever wrong and you should think about how your name could be misinterpreted. And you should avoid swearing, sexuality, and violence like the plague.

Maybe I should submitting a pull request to change "kill" to "signal".

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#78

Post by redblacktree »

jamesgeck0 wrote: post #66
icambron wrote: post #28

I think this is a good change because GOAWAY is simpler, more obvious, and has a tone matching the actual operation. Plus, the har-har pretense that GTFO means "General termination of future operations" is childish. With that out of the way, the pearl-clutching about the word "fuck" and how unprofessional it is irritates me. We have this weird notion that it's OK for us to curse individually but that there's this wid…

We have this weird notion that it's OK for us to curse individually but that there's this wider world out there that hates cursing. I don't think that's true and we should stop acting like it is. Hi, I'm part of the world you don't believe exists. I don't curse, the people I work with don't curse, the vast majority of my friends don't curse, and I've never heard a relative curse. It's not OK to be offensive just beca…

Sure it is. Just as it's OK for you to be offended by it.

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#79

Post by redblacktree »

xutopia wrote: post #24
pohl wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say that it has anything to do with the competence or skill expected of a professional. It's more a matter of decorum. Edit: I recognize that there are those who would like to load more connotations onto the term, but I think that even the above definition is just a bunch of marketing fluff promulgated by those who stand to benefit from people believing that they'll get a better result from paying someone…

Professionalism requires some decorum. Imagine if doctors called the release form the GTFO papers. If we want respect in our profession we have to stop acting like all we care about is pizza, red bull and acting like little teenagers.

I'm not sure I'm willing to make the trade.

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#80

Post by humanrebar »

Crito wrote: post #73
humanrebar wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't curse around people for the same reason you chew with your mouth closed... to be polite. That is, you do it out of consideration for others' feelings. It doesn't matter if you understand why someone could find something offensive or if you meant anything by it. Similarly, it's unprofessional to use other offensive words (such as sexist or racist terms, even the ones that aren't bleeped out in popular media)…

Hold up, the reason I don't chew with my mouth open is that people don't want to see my chewed up food (basically pre-vomit). The reason why I do feel comfortable swearing is because people actually don't have their feelings damaged or hurt by it. The reason I don't insult people is because people actually do have their feelings hurt by it. The reason I don't use misogynistic or racist language (this notably includes…

Some people don't want to discuss sexual acts and bodily functions. Trite as they are, swear words generally refer to one of those things.

But besides that, it really doesn't matter if the offense is irrational. It's irrational to freak out at people for one puff of second-hand smoke (assuming no allergies). That doesn't make it any less rude to smoke in peoples' faces.

OK. How about this? Putting a not-germane political rant (Ron Paul, Tea Party, Occupy, ...take your pick) in the documentation of your library is also unprofessional. It doesn't hurt anyone, but it needlessly causes friction and annoys people for no real gain. It's not strictly wrong (in a moral or ethical sense), but it's certainly not professional.

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