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Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

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Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#51

Post by vezzy-fnord »

lowboy wrote: post #26

Good move. GTFO is less than ideal not because of the F, but because of the association with the "Tits or GTFO" meme. https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tits+or+GTFO http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/tits-or-gtfo

GOAWAY is less than ideal not because of the "GOAWAY", but because of the association with the expression "Go away, ${RANDOM_INSULT}."

Seriously, you're no better than the person who sees "brogrammer" when the word "bro" is mentioned. This is such a narrow and ridiculously flawed way of thinking.

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#52

Post by yid »

mcantelon wrote: post #18
yid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody seems upset. This is about professionalism.

We should get rid of HTTP status 418 as well. It is humorous and humor is unprofessional. /s

Humor and allusions to profanity are not the same thing.

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#54

Post by Crito »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #46
stevejohnson wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that the surprise would come from it not meaning "get the f* out." Which makes perfect sense to me - GTFO has a meaning, and re-backronyming it can only harm understanding of the standard. Also consider non-native English speakers, which is really important when developing international standards. The fact that someone suggested a corresponding "HTTP TITS" should set off at least minor warning bells that "H…

WAT is a perfectly valid acronym, actually.

Certainly no more problematic than SMTP's HELO...

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#55

Post by Sharlin »

icambron wrote: post #28

I think this is a good change because GOAWAY is simpler, more obvious, and has a tone matching the actual operation. Plus, the har-har pretense that GTFO means "General termination of future operations" is childish. With that out of the way, the pearl-clutching about the word "fuck" and how unprofessional it is irritates me. We have this weird notion that it's OK for us to curse individually but that there's this wid…

With that out of the way, the pearl-clutching about the word "fuck" and how unprofessional it is irritates me. We have this weird notion that it's OK for us to curse individually but that there's this wider world out there that hates cursing.

Different contexts call for different language and tone of voice. I don't think cursing is a special case in this regard; it's just that it is by definition harsh and forceful and informal and thus does not belong in formal language like standard documents.

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#56

Post by watwut »

SDGT wrote: post #16
vonmoltke wrote: post #11

> GTFO is crass and doesn't belong in internet standards. Oh, STFU. Seriously, though, I see the point. I'm kinda torn on issues likes this. On one hand, language in a standard, particularly as it relates to implemented messages, should meet some minimum level of decorum and avoid colloquialisms. On the other hand, stuffy language battles are pointless and distract from the primary goal of releasing a usable standard…

The type of people that actually get offended by this stuff are rarely those involved with actually working with the protocol. I like this stuff. It reminds me that humans with a sense of humor build the things we use everyday, and not some emotionless robot.

Unfortunately, the type of people that actually get offended by this stuff tend to go around looking for this stuff. And once it finds it, it starts twitter campaign against you and your project.

If you are have no public talking experience/training, you are going to loose and be labeled ugly names.

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#57

Post by rtpg »

untog wrote: post #42
icambron wrote: post #28

I think this is a good change because GOAWAY is simpler, more obvious, and has a tone matching the actual operation. Plus, the har-har pretense that GTFO means "General termination of future operations" is childish. With that out of the way, the pearl-clutching about the word "fuck" and how unprofessional it is irritates me. We have this weird notion that it's OK for us to curse individually but that there's this wid…

I'm less concerned about the professionalism side of it than I am the confusion one. Do non-English speakers use GTFO? If not we've just given them a hard to remember acronym for no good reason.

I think people know what it means, but the bigger issue is that a lot of non-native English speakers do not parse nuance very well, and might not understand that the term in itself is somewhat strong.

I've heard a lot of foreigners (especially people from nordic countries or germany) speaking English in a way that is a lot ruder than they might realize. One thing is the personality (they seem to be more direct), but there have been many instances where it's obvious they aren't aware that the language they're using is way too strong for their situation. This goes doubly so if your main English education is internet forums.

Not saying that it's a reason to remove GTFO, but the humor (which is slightly in the very exaggerated vocabulary, which seems to be misinterpreted as a strong intent) is probably lost in translation.

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#58

Post by Crito »

schnevets wrote: post #36
genericuser wrote: post #15

I personally am a fan of professional tools breaking away from the need to be serious all the time. It is just that I experience joy when I find little things like GTFO in the world which not only make sense in their context but have a bit of humor. So I guess I just disagree with the idea that standards should not contain anything crass. Also I have a question concerning the 4th point as I am admittedly unfamiliar w…

My guess is people would see the message, know it's an acronym, but refuse to believe that the UrbanDictionary results they got from googling were the actual explanation? My favorite example of professional tool fun has to be the "Cowardly refusing to create an empty directory" result in tar ( http://erictarn.com/post/393019949/tar-cowardly-refusing-to-... ). That adverb adds a lot of character and justification to t…

I've always liked GNU Screen's "Suddenly the Dungeon collapses!! - You die..."

Well I mean, I hate when that happens, but the message is great.

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#59

Post by BlackDeath3 »

to3m wrote: post #47
BlackDeath3 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it would be better for everybody if "professionalism" focused more on competence and skill, and less on politically-correct bullshit.

Professionalism encompasses the whole lot. And I believe the presence of GTFO is not especially professional. It's spoiling for a fight, basically. And it got one, and it will lose. Pathetic, really. (I really wanted to close with a saying along the lines of "one man's politically-correct bullshit is another person's basic standard of human decency", but I saw somebody say this - or something very much like it - once…

Is spoiling for a fight necessarily a bad thing?

As far as your saying goes - fair enough. The problem with total freedom, however, is that it's sort of an idealism. Now, I'm an idealistic kind of guy, but I realize that the idea is contradictory. Your freedom to feel "decent" infringes upon my freedom to drop my favorite dirty words in front of you, and vice-versa (though personally I don't give a fuck about being "made to feel inhuman").

So, what do we do?

Re: Rename GTFO to GOAWAY

#60

Post by Crito »

mmatants wrote: post #48
icambron wrote: post #28

I think this is a good change because GOAWAY is simpler, more obvious, and has a tone matching the actual operation. Plus, the har-har pretense that GTFO means "General termination of future operations" is childish. With that out of the way, the pearl-clutching about the word "fuck" and how unprofessional it is irritates me. We have this weird notion that it's OK for us to curse individually but that there's this wid…

Fuck and other profanities are signal words for extreme emotional state. Professionalism includes remaining fair and emotionally unaffected under most reasonable conditions. Hence the dissonance of using "fuck" and other charged (culture-dependent of course) words and sentiments in work life.

Signalling an extreme emotional state is only one of many uses for the word "fuck". It is an incredibly versatile word: (probably nsfw) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN5eYFH8HZ8
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