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South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

wired.co.uk

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Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#81

Post by brazzy »

digitalengineer wrote: post #80
RivieraKid wrote: post #33

I'm surprised that so many people believe in the free market ideology (e.g. market regulation is always wrong). The error in this type of reasoning is very simple. They first assume an idealized market model and then derive conclusions from it – but the idealized market is just too different from real-world markets. It's really that simple but many really smart people fall for it.

It's not an Apple, Nexus or Windows Phone problem, it's a 'free' Phone OS (Android) problem. The price of a cheaper phones has to come from somewhere.

That makes no sense at all. If anything, the makers of Windows Phones would have more incentive to add crapware in order to offset to license costs without having to raise the price.

And iOS doesn't even have a price tag.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#82

Post by brazzy »

nickff wrote: post #68
bane wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People seem to think that the free market will automagically drive towards their arbitrary measure of goodness because, in theory, if consumers share that arbitrary measure of goodness they won't buy something that doesn't offer that. But in reality, there is only one truism in free-markets, businesses need to make money and that sometimes runs contrary to whatever issue I personally think the market should optimize…

This is a straw-man; while some may believe all consumers have and require perfect information, not all free-marketers do. If there are many under-informed consumers, these will often select pseudo-randomly, and the few well-informed consumers will select well. The small number of well-informed consumers will often make the difference between a profitable product and an unprofitable product (especially in highly comp…

You're overlooking the huge factor that is marketing, which effectively injects misinformation into the market...

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#83

Post by jdhendrickson »

ENGNR wrote: post #54
w1ntermute wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And regardless of how you get your iPhone, you are stuck with Safari as your default browser. I would rather buy a phone that has bloatware (that can be disabled) than buy a phone on which I am not free to change the default applications. That said, you can have the best of both worlds by buying a Nexus device.

That's what I thought, but there are actually a bunch of Google apps that can't be uninstalled too. My old Galaxy Nexus became unusable as Google services got more aggressive (eating all the RAM if background service calls failed due to poor connection). The phone would literally restart in the middle of every third phone call, but the option to uninstall the main culprits like Google Currents was (is?) disabled. Sur…

I know it doesn't matter to you now but you could disable currents from it's own settings and never have it start again.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#84

Post by berrypicker »

RivieraKid wrote: post #33

I'm surprised that so many people believe in the free market ideology (e.g. market regulation is always wrong). The error in this type of reasoning is very simple. They first assume an idealized market model and then derive conclusions from it – but the idealized market is just too different from real-world markets. It's really that simple but many really smart people fall for it.

So you just disproved free market economics with "very simple" reasoning along the lines of "their assumptions are wrong".

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#85

Post by RivieraKid »

berrypicker wrote: post #84
RivieraKid wrote: post #33

I'm surprised that so many people believe in the free market ideology (e.g. market regulation is always wrong). The error in this type of reasoning is very simple. They first assume an idealized market model and then derive conclusions from it – but the idealized market is just too different from real-world markets. It's really that simple but many really smart people fall for it.

So you just disproved free market economics with "very simple" reasoning along the lines of "their assumptions are wrong".

Yes, many of the conclusions are wrong, because the assumptions are wrong.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#87

Post by RivieraKid »

nickff wrote: post #79
RivieraKid wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think that antitrust laws are wrong?

Anti-trust laws are at least poorly implemented, and at worst intended to protect local special interests (against the trusts and their descendants). > "[W]e have no coherent and comprehensive account that differentiates between legal and illegal practices. Nor do we have any good way of devising remedies in complex cases that don’t create more distortions than the illegal practices they are supposed to eliminate." […

That's possible (I have a very vague knowledge of the antitrust laws in the US). But a good antitrust law is better than no antitrust law. Do you think that a secret price-setting agreement between AT&T, Verizon and Sprint should be legal? It would be profitable to these companies. In a model, competetive market, this wouldn't work, because a competitor would immediately appear on stage and started offering equivalent products for lower price. But the actual market is absolutely different, that's why regulation is needed.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#88

Post by RivieraKid »

logicchains wrote: post #65
RivieraKid wrote: post #33

I'm surprised that so many people believe in the free market ideology (e.g. market regulation is always wrong). The error in this type of reasoning is very simple. They first assume an idealized market model and then derive conclusions from it – but the idealized market is just too different from real-world markets. It's really that simple but many really smart people fall for it.

The reasoning you describe is not the only reason people oppose market regulation. Personally, I find the idea disgusting that somebody could be imprisoned (and killed if they resist) simply for selling something to somebody else, something that the other person was happy to buy. The idea that violence is perfectly justified just because somebody provided a shitty phone experience almost physically sickens me.

Well, it rarely leads to actual violance. But I get your point. The way I look at it is that citizens collectively own this place, so they can collectively decide on the rules. Laws and regulations are just group decision on a high level.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#89

Post by timje1 »

ojii wrote: post #74
arkitaip wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Nexus 5 but my Nexus 4 comes with Google's bloatware apps, none of which are uninstallable.

Mine even has a "HP Print Service Plugin" which is unremovable and wastes ~25MB. And unremovable Chinese and Thai IMEs. But at least it's a lot less bloated than my previous HTC phones (Desire and One X).

I uninstalled the 'HP Print Service' on my Nexus 5 without an issue ...

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#90

Post by digitalengineer »

brazzy wrote: post #81
digitalengineer wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an Apple, Nexus or Windows Phone problem, it's a 'free' Phone OS (Android) problem. The price of a cheaper phones has to come from somewhere.

That makes no sense at all. If anything, the makers of Windows Phones would have more incentive to add crapware in order to offset to license costs without having to raise the price. And iOS doesn't even have a price tag.

I'll explain: The cheap Android phones do this to earn a few bucks from the provider and/or crapware providers. The audience interested in cheap Android phones is less educated than people paying a premium for their phones. People pay a premium to get a good phone with a good experience. Crapware will kill marketshare.

If Windows Phone added crapware they'd be dead in the water. I can't see them doing this, there is too much competition in the market.

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