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South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

wired.co.uk

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Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#71

Post by icebraining »

RivieraKid wrote: post #33

I'm surprised that so many people believe in the free market ideology (e.g. market regulation is always wrong). The error in this type of reasoning is very simple. They first assume an idealized market model and then derive conclusions from it – but the idealized market is just too different from real-world markets. It's really that simple but many really smart people fall for it.

I'm sorry, but you're committing an error in your reasoning: one doesn't need to assume that markets are perfect to oppose regulations; one just needs to consider that, as bad as free markets can be, they're never worse than the political system that creates the regulations.

Arnold Kling endorses free markets not because they are foolproof or flawless. They aren’t. Arnold supports them because the alternative is generally much worse: an especially flawed institution that fosters unusual amounts of foolishness.

http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/klinging-to-reality#ax...

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#72

Post by Ygg2 »

icebraining wrote: post #71
RivieraKid wrote: post #33

I'm surprised that so many people believe in the free market ideology (e.g. market regulation is always wrong). The error in this type of reasoning is very simple. They first assume an idealized market model and then derive conclusions from it – but the idealized market is just too different from real-world markets. It's really that simple but many really smart people fall for it.

I'm sorry, but you're committing an error in your reasoning: one doesn't need to assume that markets are perfect to oppose regulations; one just needs to consider that, as bad as free markets can be, they're never worse than the political system that creates the regulations. Arnold Kling endorses free markets not because they are foolproof or flawless. They aren’t. Arnold supports them because the alternative is gene…

I'd like to see some proof that they are better? I consider them on par with each other.

Mainly, because I don't see how Free Markets don't collapse into a Regulated Market by the will of major players? If you are in a relatively Free Market and you gain a monopoly it's wiser, in short term, to invest into instruments to prolong your monopoly, rather than research and development. In other words it is in interest of major monopolies to create regulations to stop competition.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#73

Post by rrreese »

twiceaday wrote: post #26
hhsnopek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's if you get it though Verizon, its better to (byod), not buy on contract...

I think the point is that, regardless of how you get your iPhone, an iPhone will not have bloatware pre-installed. Same thing for Macs.

Perhaps you don't own an iPhone? Theres a bunch of unremovable crap on mine. A comically bad notes app that loses notes, a poorly implemented reminders app, weather app (branded with a asmall yahoo add), Games Center which I can only assume was made by people who actively hate games, and a stock market app also festooned with yahoo adds.

That's ignoring the disaster that is the unreplaceable browser and mail app.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#74

Post by ojii »

arkitaip wrote: post #61
w1ntermute wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a false dichotomy. The Nexus 5 is $349 off-contract and has no bloatware. The Moto X is going on sale for just $300 off-contract tomorrow (the regular off-contract price being $400).

I don't know about Nexus 5 but my Nexus 4 comes with Google's bloatware apps, none of which are uninstallable.

Mine even has a "HP Print Service Plugin" which is unremovable and wastes ~25MB. And unremovable Chinese and Thai IMEs. But at least it's a lot less bloated than my previous HTC phones (Desire and One X).

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#75

Post by nickff »

Ygg2 wrote: post #72
icebraining wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but you're committing an error in your reasoning: one doesn't need to assume that markets are perfect to oppose regulations; one just needs to consider that, as bad as free markets can be, they're never worse than the political system that creates the regulations. Arnold Kling endorses free markets not because they are foolproof or flawless. They aren’t. Arnold supports them because the alternative is gene…

I'd like to see some proof that they are better? I consider them on par with each other. Mainly, because I don't see how Free Markets don't collapse into a Regulated Market by the will of major players? If you are in a relatively Free Market and you gain a monopoly it's wiser, in short term, to invest into instruments to prolong your monopoly, rather than research and development. In other words it is in interest of…

You are correct that investing in attaining a government granted monopoly has a very high return on investment.[1]

This is exactly why many free-market advocates believe that the government should not be allowed to regulate at all, or at least without very strong evidence that the intervention is necessary and proper, as well as limited in time and scope. These people believe that regulators are subject to 'public choice' problems.[2]

[1] http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1375082

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#77

Post by tomp »

icebraining wrote: post #71
RivieraKid wrote: post #33

I'm surprised that so many people believe in the free market ideology (e.g. market regulation is always wrong). The error in this type of reasoning is very simple. They first assume an idealized market model and then derive conclusions from it – but the idealized market is just too different from real-world markets. It's really that simple but many really smart people fall for it.

I'm sorry, but you're committing an error in your reasoning: one doesn't need to assume that markets are perfect to oppose regulations; one just needs to consider that, as bad as free markets can be, they're never worse than the political system that creates the regulations. Arnold Kling endorses free markets not because they are foolproof or flawless. They aren’t. Arnold supports them because the alternative is gene…

Are you just pointing out an error in his/her reasoning, or do you actually believe what you said? If the latter, do you consider regulation regarding food safety, medical profession and energy industry bad?

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#78

Post by RivieraKid »

icebraining wrote: post #71
RivieraKid wrote: post #33

I'm surprised that so many people believe in the free market ideology (e.g. market regulation is always wrong). The error in this type of reasoning is very simple. They first assume an idealized market model and then derive conclusions from it – but the idealized market is just too different from real-world markets. It's really that simple but many really smart people fall for it.

I'm sorry, but you're committing an error in your reasoning: one doesn't need to assume that markets are perfect to oppose regulations; one just needs to consider that, as bad as free markets can be, they're never worse than the political system that creates the regulations. Arnold Kling endorses free markets not because they are foolproof or flawless. They aren’t. Arnold supports them because the alternative is gene…

So you think that antitrust laws are wrong?

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#79

Post by nickff »

RivieraKid wrote: post #78
icebraining wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but you're committing an error in your reasoning: one doesn't need to assume that markets are perfect to oppose regulations; one just needs to consider that, as bad as free markets can be, they're never worse than the political system that creates the regulations. Arnold Kling endorses free markets not because they are foolproof or flawless. They aren’t. Arnold supports them because the alternative is gene…

So you think that antitrust laws are wrong?

Anti-trust laws are at least poorly implemented, and at worst intended to protect local special interests (against the trusts and their descendants).

>"[W]e have no coherent and comprehensive account that differentiates between legal and illegal practices. Nor do we have any good way of devising remedies in complex cases that don’t create more distortions than the illegal practices they are supposed to eliminate."[1]

[1] http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/18/christine-varney-antitrust-...

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#80

Post by digitalengineer »

RivieraKid wrote: post #33

I'm surprised that so many people believe in the free market ideology (e.g. market regulation is always wrong). The error in this type of reasoning is very simple. They first assume an idealized market model and then derive conclusions from it – but the idealized market is just too different from real-world markets. It's really that simple but many really smart people fall for it.

It's not an Apple, Nexus or Windows Phone problem, it's a 'free' Phone OS (Android) problem. The price of a cheaper phones has to come from somewhere.
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