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Revolution in Kiev

zyalt.livejournal.com

21–30 of 377 posts

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#21

Stunning photography. What I see here is large scale destruction of presumably their city by it's citizens. I don't see how anything good can come out of mass hysteria and destruction. Edit... I don't believe for a moment and based on numerous other reports in the media, that assertions about peacefulness of this protest are true or represent anything but something that poster would like to be. Doesn't sound likely a…

At the same time though, peaceful protests only go that far.

Right. I think that "violence is never the answer!" is a very first-world perspective.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#22

Stunning photography. What I see here is large scale destruction of presumably their city by it's citizens. I don't see how anything good can come out of mass hysteria and destruction. Edit... I don't believe for a moment and based on numerous other reports in the media, that assertions about peacefulness of this protest are true or represent anything but something that poster would like to be. Doesn't sound likely a…

You didn't read the commentary at all, did you? Incredibly minimal damage, no 'mass hysteria' at all.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#23
post #4

I feel like this kind of thing (the various Arab Spring uprisings, the Ukrainian revolution, &c ) is very well served by the cacophony of amateur/citizen journalism that flows out of an individual event. Sure, at the time, it's incredibly noisy, because there's so much primary source material being created, with such incredible depth and nuance. Once people start to be able to assemble a comprehensive understanding o…

A lot of what seems to be grassroots could be aided, and perhaps even orchestrated, by sophisticated groups with a political agenda, e.g. the CIA. It would only take around 10-20 bloggers to create the illusion that the majority people in the country felt a certain way. EDIT: and nowadays, they wouldn't just blog, they would post to Reddit, and maybe even HN.

True enough. But my extended social circle includes a number of people of Ukrainian nationality and/or descent. Everything I've heard from them (which is, granted, not a lot; I haven't been tracking these events terribly actively, let alone vis-à-vis their perspectives) tends to corroborate what I'm seeing in this blog post, at least.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#24

A protester in Kiev did an IAmA on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1w17qn/iama_protestor_... According to him, "Russia is trying to keep all the former Soviet Union satellite countries under control, and that is the root cause of the rioting."

They've already lost Moldavia recently, and didn't they lose Georgia, too? I don't think they can keep them under control much longer.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#25
post #4

I feel like this kind of thing (the various Arab Spring uprisings, the Ukrainian revolution, &c ) is very well served by the cacophony of amateur/citizen journalism that flows out of an individual event. Sure, at the time, it's incredibly noisy, because there's so much primary source material being created, with such incredible depth and nuance. Once people start to be able to assemble a comprehensive understanding o…

A lot of what seems to be grassroots could be aided, and perhaps even orchestrated, by sophisticated groups with a political agenda, e.g. the CIA. It would only take around 10-20 bloggers to create the illusion that the majority people in the country felt a certain way. EDIT: and nowadays, they wouldn't just blog, they would post to Reddit, and maybe even HN.

I guess I'd better become a citizen journalist to counteract it, then.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#26

Reading stuff like this is a wonderful way to remind me how naive and easy to manipulate people generally are.

who do you think is being manipulated? Statements like that are useless without some elaboration.

The protesters are manipulated into thinking that joining EU and getting rid of Yanukovich is somehow the first step to prosperity... And the blogosphere is manipulated into buying this as some kind of completely spontaneous grass roots movement. Sure people want change.. But this is bankrolled elsewhere.. I bet it wasn't that expensive either.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#27
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - John F. Kennedy

You'd think oppressive leaders would learn that lesson by now. But no, it seems we're more likely doomed to repeat it in cycles, over and over again. I wonder what those politicians who come up with the idea of "hey, let's make protesting virtually impossible. That will all our problems!".

They need to understand that protesting is that an effect of a cause. If the cause isn't fixed, those issues and frustrations the people have won't just go away. They will build up, until they explode.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#28

Stunning photography. What I see here is large scale destruction of presumably their city by it's citizens. I don't see how anything good can come out of mass hysteria and destruction. Edit... I don't believe for a moment and based on numerous other reports in the media, that assertions about peacefulness of this protest are true or represent anything but something that poster would like to be. Doesn't sound likely a…

Tire burning is not really large scale destruction. From the livejournal entry:

1."They destroyed the whole city"

Not true. All of the action you see in the pictures are happening on a small square near the entrance to a Dinamo stadium. This is a government sector, there is no intereference in peaceful life outside of this area. If you make an analogy with Moscow, imagine that the barricades are someone in the area of Ilinka or Varvarka, near the president's administration. Sure, it's the center, but regular Moscovites wouldn't notice. There is dark smoke and fire on all pictures: those are mostly burning tires. There is not tangible damage to the buildings. Unfortunately one store burned down last night near the barricades, resulted from a poorly thrown molotov cocktail. Even the statue of Lobanovsky, located in the epicenter of fighting has been covered with cloth to prevent damage. Overall, the protesters are very careful regarding property. They've take apart fences and benches, but no windows are broken, noone is vandalizing, and all looters are caught and beaten. So the picture is pretty apocalyptic, but things are not so bad.

3. "The entire Kiev is paralyzed, there is no peaceful life for the regular people."

Kiev is living its own life. All stores and cafes are working, people are going to work, study in universities, get married, divorce and even die their own death. Most of the Kiev populace are not inconvenienced. Imagine if Navalny took over the Red Square and set up his camp there. What would change for you, Moscovites? Nothing. So the only people who are inconvenienced are toruists. A few stores and cafes had to close down in the very center. Also, those living in the center have troubles with logistics. But the entire Kiev is not paralyzed.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#29

The photography here is absolutely incredible. This situation is really frightening to me. I so hope that the Ukraine can get out from underneath her oppressors (yes I mean Yanukovitch and Putin) without descending any further into chaos.

I'm a bit uninformed; is there any recent precedent for a revolt like this succeeding? Honestly I'm a little skeptical that a revolution of this sort could ultimately defeat a vastly better-funded power without overwhelming popular support.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#30

A protester in Kiev did an IAmA on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1w17qn/iama_protestor_... According to him, "Russia is trying to keep all the former Soviet Union satellite countries under control, and that is the root cause of the rioting."

They've already lost Moldavia recently, and didn't they lose Georgia, too? I don't think they can keep them under control much longer.

They're losing a lot of the political clout they held over their former puppets. The Baltic states have been making closer and closer ties to the eurozone as well, along with Romania, etc. The Ukraine feels very much like a last stand of Russia, which may explain why they're placing so much pressure on the heads of government there.
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