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This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

ariannasimpson.com

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Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#191

Post by sliverstorm »

ossreality wrote: post #179
sliverstorm wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's pretty simple; human courting is chock full of nonverbals and hints and read-between-the-lines. You take a guy who understands he's supposed to pick up on these things and be bold, but is quite bad at detecting whether interest is reciprocated, and tadah- you have this blog post. Supporting evidence that I felt greatly bolstered my theory- Not long ago I went for a kiss with a girl I barely knew. I knew…

I uh, I do understand what you're saying. My empathy is overflowing, and I've seen friends that have gone from timid to "over confident" in order to find more success in dating... so I can understand that a million thoughts were flying through his head when he decided to go for it. BUT, the two were strangers, in a topic-oriented setting, and she rebuffed his first attempt. That could have, and should have been the e…

You're right, it could have/should have stopped at the first rebuff. But it does make quite a lot of sense that someone who we are already assuming is very bad at reading attraction and social clues might miss or chose to ignore the first rebuff, especially when it is an indirect rebuff like the one in this story.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#192

Post by vacri »

hbags wrote: post #137
meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

I think it's absolutely disgusting that you criticize the victim for documenting what happened to her. It's despicable and downright fucking evil that you basically accuse her of sharing her story solely because she wants attention. The worst part of your god-awful post is that it's currently pinned to the top of this board. The fact that your disgusting, insensitive post is at the top is why women don't work in tech…

That comment is 'despicable and downright fucking evil'? Why does everything have to be done at maximum emotional output these days? What about 'Hey, this isn't on, please don't do that'?

As soon as you start insulting someone, they will not internalise any lesson you're trying to make. They may moderate their behaviour out of fear of backlash, but they will shutdown any attempt to listen to the root cause of your problem.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#193

Post by clavalle »

throwawaycoder wrote: post #150
clavalle wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then again, what kind of person gropes a stranger, in public, in front of a bunch of people who are sure to see and know who you are? You really can't put anything past someone who has absolutely no restraint or regard for people.

Yeah, let's just get it over with and say he basically raped her. Let's increase the counter for "women get raped in public all the time" up by one. After all, even if he didn't rape her, the psychological damage was the same, so it counts. Also, let's put that guy in jail for rape.

No. Let's keep words meaning what they mean.

But we can say this guy violated her space and insulted her dignity and acted in a way that would make most people cringe if not shun the guy.

I wouldn't trust him after seeing him display that behavior. Would you?

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#194

Post by sliverstorm »

silencio wrote: post #173
sliverstorm wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

assume I'm a frigid bitch anyway instead of recognizing that they're the ones making a big mistake I know I already replied to you, but I had one more thought- your frustration is not with assholes & sexual assaulters, your frustration here is really with humans in general :) This is a classic, classic human trait that shows up in just about every type interaction.

I have the personal space problem no matter where I go and the "frigid bitch" thing for even the slightest offense is common, so yeah it is definitely a human problem. It just seems that in the tech community there are people more eager to jump to namecalling/victim blaming/harassment or defending what happened. (Scroll down for some great examples, if they haven't been deleted yet!) There are good people for sure he…

the "frigid bitch" thing for even the slightest offense is common

You must meet a lot of real assholes :( Again, not a woman, but I've literally never heard a man speak those words, at least that I recall.

Edit: I may have heard it spoken before in the context of ex-wives

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#195

Post by throwawaycoder »

clavalle wrote: post #193
throwawaycoder wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, let's just get it over with and say he basically raped her. Let's increase the counter for "women get raped in public all the time" up by one. After all, even if he didn't rape her, the psychological damage was the same, so it counts. Also, let's put that guy in jail for rape.

No. Let's keep words meaning what they mean. But we can say this guy violated her space and insulted her dignity and acted in a way that would make most people cringe if not shun the guy. I wouldn't trust him after seeing him display that behavior. Would you?

"I wouldn't trust him after seeing him display that behavior. Would you?"

Of course I wouldn't. Neither would most people in the Bitcoin community. Nevertheless, now we have "this is how women are being treated at Bitcoin meetups".

Btw not only would I not trust him, I also wouldn't like him.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#196

Post by acdha »

sliverstorm wrote: post #134
runjake wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really turned off by these posts, too. I roll my eyes and mutter "Christ, not another one". But I'm a male who doesn't have to worry about being groped and I keep my hands to myself. But let me guess how the reality turns out for her: - She says something about it. - The guy who is misbehaving is probably physically bigger than her. She may feel fearful of speaking up. or - She speaks up and gets called a "prude"…

She speaks up and gets called a "prude" I do wonder about this sometimes. Like, when have I ever cared what the guy who hit me with his car thinks of me? When have I ever cared what the guy who stole my MP3 player thought of me? I know "stop caring" isn't useful advice, but I wonder sometimes why any woman would care what an assaulter has to say in the first place.

She specifically mentioned looking at this as a professional opportunity: beyond the immediate concern of possible retaliation by the attacker there's the concern for what other people might think. His friends might defend him and uninvolved people would remember her for the incident rather than as a professional and potential business partner.

Note that all of the property crimes you mentioned are different in one key way: a large subset of society doesn't initially try to blame the victim when it happen. Nobody is racing to explain that your car was asking for it or that you must not have taken enough steps to make your MP3 player unappealing, all of which are depressingly routine for victims of sexual assault.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#197

Post by rfnslyr »

hbags wrote: post #137
meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

I think it's absolutely disgusting that you criticize the victim for documenting what happened to her. It's despicable and downright fucking evil that you basically accuse her of sharing her story solely because she wants attention. The worst part of your god-awful post is that it's currently pinned to the top of this board. The fact that your disgusting, insensitive post is at the top is why women don't work in tech…

Jesus christ you must have SERIOUS emotional issues.

You know how this situation should have been actually handled?

"Hey [groper], get your hands off me, I don't appreciate being touched by someone I don't know and I don't appreciate your remarks either."

10 seconds, situation over. But instead, OP decided to write a novel on this "experience", and generalized to: meetups, women, and tech. Now if other women read this, they will have fear and hostility instilled in them because scumbags like OP don't know how to deal with real life and just want e-attention.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#198

Post by ANTSANTS »

ossreality wrote: post #174
ANTSANTS wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth are you taking this personally? All I'm saying is that I hold the community of tech professionals to a different standard than I do every random person running cgminer, and that "tech" shouldn't be judged by the actions of those people, which makes about as much sense as judging the community of professional artists by the actions of random anime fans. >In this case, it's a distraction. The problem is th…

Sorry, I wasn't taking it personally. I was having a meta discussion about how we were talking about it more than anything. I don't think we have a problem with each other. :) >I claimed that this is far worse than normal behavior that is probably isolated to the "community" of cryptocurrency speculators. [...] You can disagree if you'd like, but I'm not "distracting" or "derailing" the conversation, I'm just... havi…

>Still though, what is the point of making this distinction? Like, I don't think anyone ever /was/ asserting that running cgminer or holding some doges makes you "as legit" or "in the same vein as" someone who works in SV or works for Microsoft or something.

See the parent comment:

>How many more posts like this are needed to convince you that the whole community of tech meetups is hostile towards women?

Which implies that a Bitcoin meetup is a tech community meetup in the same vein as a Python meetup, and that their behavior reflects negatively on tech professionals.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#199

Post by kevingadd »

genericuser wrote: post #91
kevingadd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone with such a messed up perception of personal boundaries and acceptable behavior that they would FEEL UP SOMEONE IN PUBLIC is not necessarily going to stop just because you tell them. They might get more aggressive.

They 'might' do just about anything if you tell them to stop. (including stop) The point is if you don't try, they have already shown what they plan to do. And in a group of people with two people you know some of the risk is mitigated. Now I think she handled a bad situation quite politely, and she has no obligation to put effort into making that particular situation better. However I believe that in making the blog…

Unfortunately many women simply don't feel safe enough to fight back and instead will remove themselves from a situation like that. If the space itself feels unsafe (instead of it just being a 'bad person in a good place' situation), that's going to make it seem like a much better idea to leave.

After all, it's not as if these are unusual occurrences. They're all too common.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#200

Post by vacri »

hbags wrote: post #181
rosser wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I can think of in response to this diatribe is a line from The Big Lebowski : "You're not wrong, Walter. You're just an asshole." Seriously, dude; chill. You can communicate your (not incorrect) point so very much more effectively without ragefacing all over the person you're replying to. It gets in the way of successful communication, and probably does horrible things for your blood pressure to boot.

I'm not dumb enough to try to change the stripes on a proudly bigoted jerk like Meritt. I just want anybody who sees his spew to know that his opinion is not the only one. I want any human who is harassed to know that if they share their story after the fact, that's good. And they shouldn't worry about the fact that some utterly worthless assholes like Meritt will try to shame them for speaking out. They shouldn't be…

I'm fine with a bit of profanity and would like to see more, personally. But when your comment is basically nothing but invective, you don't really have a leg to stand on when you're calling someone else worthless.

And I'd like other potential Meritt's to realize how utterly disgusting it is that he tried to shame the victim into silence.

Meritt said 'say something right then and there, it's more effective. Then write a blog post about that instead'. Whether that's true or not could be up for debate (likewise the victim's responsibility to do something), but you have to be pretty one-eyed to read that as shaming the victim into silence rather than encouraging the victim into action.

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