defense contractors did the same to stop engineers from bouncing around as well.
How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages
211–220 of 488 posts
Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages
#212It seems like we should be able to measure whatever effect there was. There must be sources of data about salaries in the Bay Area. Has anyone tried looking to see if there is a depression in tech workers' salaries, relative to people in other fields, during the time this agreement was in force?
I doubt we will ever be able to "measure" the effect. We can only guess and debate it with hypothetical scenarios -- "what if all these CEOs had had to compete for talented employees, instead of fixing the market for them?" Regardless of the effect, it is a shame to see that these leading CEOs, who for years have vociferously complained about media & telecom oligopolies for preventing competition, were for years simu…
What are you talking about? A "free market" encourages exactly this behavior! If it weren't illegal it would go on indefinitely.
Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are several reasons why software engineers are underpaid compared to their performance. Keep in mind these are generalizations and therefore you will find exceptions to what I outline below. -Software developers typically aren't comfortable negotiating, nor are we well versed at it. Therefore, we accept job offers for less than we know we are worth and accept raises offered rather than negotiate raises based on…
That's also the beauty of software development—I don't need to have a fancy degree or work ridiculous hours as an associate/intern to get a job in it.
> I don't need to [...] work ridiculous hours
And yet sometimes it's seems the norm to do so anyway, even if there is no apparent reason why they would "need" to do so
Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages
#214The site seems to be down, here is google cached copy
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:s-e6m0J...
Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
it's a fairly weak attempt at 'collusion'. What form of success here qualifies as "weak?" If big tech companies are colluding to depress engineer wages, they're pretty obviously failing. You're going to have to show your work here.
The fact that I'm a 21 year old drop out making nearly 100k because I sat in my mom's basement for a few years and studied software that interested me is pretty crazy.
Part of the reason it's crazy is because the collusion in other industries is even worse.
Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you are a student, I would still recommend moving to SV. It's probably the best place in the world right now to be a software developer. This wage-theft stuff is for very experienced echelons of engineers.
The wage-theft stuff lowers the curve for everyone, not just the top tier. It lowers the entire wage curve.
The article does not support this claim. My reading is that GOOG's HR department kept/keeps the salary curve artificially flat (over-rewarding low performers) to manage pay within a narrow band and thereby prevent having to negotiate with top performers.
Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages
#217I am so glad this is being revealed now. It's not exactly new, but this is the perfect time. Why? Because Google Bus Protests, that's why. This is a chance for the people and the engineers to line up, shoulder to shoulder, on the same side and take down the fuckers who've become the elite of this system. The resistance begins.
Er yeah. The 'people' i.e. astroturfed left-wing activists are protesting the employees, not the CEOs.
Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages
#218All of the excuses and rationalizations I see posted here make me ill. It's like very few "peons" understand the mentality of those who are "in charge" - e.g. the Clueless, Loser, Sociopath hierarchy of how businesses are structured. There has been a recent spate of stories across the web about how wealth affects people's mentality and behavior - I am reminded now of a story about India and how the stark class differ…
Do you want to know what marxism is like in america? Try academic research science. Pay lines for postdocs are effectively set by a centalized agency - NIH guidelines. There's limited market and a captive, oversupplied labor pool, zero ownership of the means of production ("it all goes for the collective effort"). Advancement is not meritocratic, but rather a combination of being in the right place when a position op…
Bravo. The absurdity of some of the highest paid people in the world calling for a revolution is really comical to an immigrant like me. Not to say that the collusion was not despicable.
Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fact that I'm a 21 year old drop out making nearly 100k because I sat in my mom's basement for a few years and studied software that interested me is pretty crazy.
This is true, but irrelevant. Market price is market price. These companies are generating massive income. They are paying high wages (and colluding to avoid paying higher ones) because engineers are necessary to that. The question you should ask during salary negotiations isn't, "Do I, based on my own value judgments and moral code, deserve this much money?" It's: "Are they paying me market price for my skills?" If…
> These companies are generating massive income.
Illustration:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=profit+per+employee+app...
Remember this is net rev, what they take in after paying everyone. Assuming the average employee makes $120K, and given that they can't exist long enough to make $1 without the engineers showing up, these companies should be willing to pay everyone up to 2-3x that
Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I see you're using Windows, so would you mind also listing your tech experience? WTF? Please explain your comment. If I take it literally it sounds like sheer unadulterated bigotry. I am hoping that I completely misunderstood you. If that's the case, I very sincerely apologize and owe you a beer or two.
My responses should lead to more discussion, less flamewar. I have strong feelings against Windows. I should have restrained myself. I think you pegged me, but to my credit I'm no bigot, I just have a personal bias against Windows.
Fair enough, I have strong feelings against Windows and a personal bias against it too, and I use it every day!
I think what triggered my hot button there was the feeling that other tech people have looked down on me because I use Windows. I don't like Windows either, I just dislike it a bit less than the other operating systems. :-)
Sincere apologies if I overreacted, and if you're in the Bay Area feel free to take me up on that beer!