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Emacs, naked

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Re: Emacs, naked

#141

Post by Crito »

blueblob wrote: post #132
terhechte wrote: post #2

Coming from Vim, when I switched to Emacs, I found the starting aesthetic experience more than lacking (or, ugly). It took me some time (and a helpful HN discussion) until I found good themes and good plugins to make it look aesthetically pleasing (to my eyes, at least, after all people's tastes differ). If somebody is looking for a nice Emacs theme and feels that the OP is a bit too minimal, have a look at my Emacs…

Not trying to be a douche, but trying to get an honest answer: if you are coming from Vim, using Evil-Vim to get Vim-like commands why use Emacs in the first place? What features do you use/did you want that made you switch?

I haven't made the switch yet, mostly because I am not enamored with elisp (when the hell is that guile-emacs thing going to properly get off the ground? Probably never...), but the basic design of emacs (C core, everything else built up around it with a lisp) appeals to me greatly.

If I ever do make the switch, I'll definitely still be using Evil mode though. I can't drop vi-editing, and don't want to anyway.

Re: Emacs, naked

#143

Post by MarcusDenker »

klibertp wrote: post #133
swah wrote: post #7

Ì wonder if some Emacs people intend to migrate to LightTable in a few years?

I don't "plan" to, but I hope for it to be possible. In a couple of years, yes. LightTable shows great promise as an editor and it's design makes it well suited to being an environment in the future. I'm just worried that before LT gets to become what I want it to Emacs will already have what is attractive in LT. For me it's ClojureScript and much more flexible UI. If Emacs gets Guile as it's scripting language (and…

If you are interested in helping with the Editor and improving text support in general... the first step is to help with the new text model. If you are interested, contact us. It would be nice to have that ready for Pharo4 :-)

Re: Emacs, naked

#144

Post by zem »

blueblob wrote: post #132
terhechte wrote: post #2

Coming from Vim, when I switched to Emacs, I found the starting aesthetic experience more than lacking (or, ugly). It took me some time (and a helpful HN discussion) until I found good themes and good plugins to make it look aesthetically pleasing (to my eyes, at least, after all people's tastes differ). If somebody is looking for a nice Emacs theme and feels that the OP is a bit too minimal, have a look at my Emacs…

Not trying to be a douche, but trying to get an honest answer: if you are coming from Vim, using Evil-Vim to get Vim-like commands why use Emacs in the first place? What features do you use/did you want that made you switch?

emacs's autoindentation for several languages (e.g. haskell) is a lot better than vim's. that all by itself is a compelling reason to use evil for those languages.

Re: Emacs, naked

#145

Post by Dewie »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #62
throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously the professional way! By inviting them to the center of the office to discuss frankly their viewpoints on sex until everyone quits from misery. I'd also scatter conservative religious pamphlets and dildos around the office to encourage everyone to participate. Because obviously it would deprive a reader to explain how to remove GUI widgets from an emacs frame [window], without making a metaphor of the windo…

Mind explaining where it was implied that the window represents a nude female? Just because the post uses some racy humor with the striptease metaphor, doesn't mean it implies any particular sex. This could just as easily be a man, woman, android or RMS himself stripping (and considering that the whole post is at the backdrop of an RMS quote taken deliberately out of context, I wouldn't be surprised if it was meant t…

> Mind explaining where it was implied that the window represents a nude female?

This is actually a great feature in online debates when you want to find something to argue about. In particular, this feature doesn't force the first party to explicitly state offensive things in order for the third party readership to take offence. I call it, offence inference. Can a sentence be interpreted in an offensive light, by anyone? The offence inferer will find the implicit offence!

Re: Emacs, naked

#146

Post by fafner »

massysett wrote: post #110
astrobe_ wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switch between Vim and Emacs depending on mood. It's a very hard deal: Emacs is a plateform that can do a lot of things besides editing, but it requires a lot of configuration fiddling, and is a bit too slow on the old machine on which I'm using it (must be a single core Pentium with Mandriva 9). Vim has a lot of things right off the box and is fast, but you have to use other programs to have a comfortable environm…

I switched to Emacs after being very impressed with nxml-mode. I found no better xml editor on Linux. Emacs is great if there is a mode that's written for what you're doing--for instance, nxml-mode. I can imagine it's also great for C, for instance, because that mode is old and has seen lots of work. For lisp I'm sure Emacs is peerless. Emacs is not so great if there's not a good mode for you. I grew frustrated tryin…

> I grew frustrated trying to edit Haskell in Emacs; there are a bunch of half-baked modes out there.

What's wrong with the normal haskell-mode? https://github.com/haskell/haskell-mode

(interestingly another commentator here claims that Emacs' Haskell indentation is superior to VIM's https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7111521)

> It's not great at doing version control [...]

Have you tried magit? It's probably the best version control support I've ever seen in an editor.

Re: Emacs, naked

#147

Post by fafner »

vsbuffalo wrote: post #67

As a long time emacs user (and lover) I wish RMS and other emacs developers would take his quote to heart more in emacs development. Emacs is shipped with too many things. Emacs finally has a really nice package manager, so I'd love to see a version with minimal default packages. Do I really need java-mode if I never, ever will use Java? Calc when I have R? SMTP support? No, I need absolutely none of this.

So why does it bother you that there are modes which you don't use? They aren't loaded as default anyway.

Re: Emacs, naked

#148

Post by massysett »

fafner wrote: post #146
massysett wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched to Emacs after being very impressed with nxml-mode. I found no better xml editor on Linux. Emacs is great if there is a mode that's written for what you're doing--for instance, nxml-mode. I can imagine it's also great for C, for instance, because that mode is old and has seen lots of work. For lisp I'm sure Emacs is peerless. Emacs is not so great if there's not a good mode for you. I grew frustrated tryin…

> I grew frustrated trying to edit Haskell in Emacs; there are a bunch of half-baked modes out there. What's wrong with the normal haskell-mode? https://github.com/haskell/haskell-mode (interestingly another commentator here claims that Emacs' Haskell indentation is superior to VIM's https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7111521 ) > It's not great at doing version control [...] Have you tried magit? It's probably the…

> What's wrong with the normal haskell-mode?

The indentation doesn't work well. It gets the indentation right maybe 80% of the time, but missing it 20% of the time is a big deal when you have to deal with the "tab-cycle." I spent so much time fiddling with indentation that I turned off auto indentation...and Emacs without mode-based auto indentation is much worse than Vim with manual indentation.

I also had problems with inferior-haskell-mode. I could have tried to fix them but I was fed up with futzing with Emacs, especially when I can go to Vim and just use ghci in a terminal.

A response might be "but you can use ghci in a terminal and still use Emacs." Which is true, but then I'm using a not-so-great editor that's not fulfilling its promise of integrating other tools. What's the point?

> Have you tried magit?

Yep. I still need to know Git and its command-line interface. With magit I was spending time learning magit, but not getting functionality beyond what the Git command line offers. Not worth it.

It seemed to me I was spending time learning tools in order to justify my use of Emacs. That's backward, so I stopped. I could have kept using Emacs without the other baked-in Emacs tools...but then you're just left with an editor. In that case I will pick Vim since it's the better editor.

Re: Emacs, naked

#149

Post by npsimons »

Many of these suggestions seem similar to Steve Yegge's "Effective Emacs" which I can recommend if you are a new Emacs user (or even if you've just not seen it before):

https://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/effective-emacs

I like getting rid of toolbars and such, but still like to keep the modeline and gutters.

Re: Emacs, naked

#150

Post by aaronem »

S4M wrote: post #108
dTal wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidently, by changing the title. Personally I thought "striptease" was a much richer metaphor for what the linked article showed - the removal of "dressing", piece by piece. But then I'm not a prude with a stick up my ass.

Seriously, what the fuck with the title change this time? Is the term "strip tease" offending, really? There used to be a Belgian-French television show called just like that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strip-Tease_%28TV_series%29

I'm guessing it was a belated attempt to stifle the inevitable social justice flame war.
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