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Emacs, naked

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Re: Emacs, naked

#131

Post by klibertp »

vsbuffalo wrote: post #67

As a long time emacs user (and lover) I wish RMS and other emacs developers would take his quote to heart more in emacs development. Emacs is shipped with too many things. Emacs finally has a really nice package manager, so I'd love to see a version with minimal default packages. Do I really need java-mode if I never, ever will use Java? Calc when I have R? SMTP support? No, I need absolutely none of this.

Obligatory link: http://nullprogram.com/blog/2009/06/23/

I don't get why this is a problem - almost everything that comes with default Emacs installation is not loaded by default and so you don't even need to know it's there. Or you can just remove these modes altogether from your installation, no problem. On the other hand, if something made it to the Emacs core, it's probably more stable and easier integrated with other plugins. There are many plugins in the wild which do a great job by themselves, but fail miserably in the presence of other plugins enabled, and such plugins are not in Emacs (or I didn't see them yet).

Re: Emacs, naked

#132

Post by blueblob »

terhechte wrote: post #2

Coming from Vim, when I switched to Emacs, I found the starting aesthetic experience more than lacking (or, ugly). It took me some time (and a helpful HN discussion) until I found good themes and good plugins to make it look aesthetically pleasing (to my eyes, at least, after all people's tastes differ). If somebody is looking for a nice Emacs theme and feels that the OP is a bit too minimal, have a look at my Emacs…

Not trying to be a douche, but trying to get an honest answer: if you are coming from Vim, using Evil-Vim to get Vim-like commands why use Emacs in the first place? What features do you use/did you want that made you switch?

Re: Emacs, naked

#133

Post by klibertp »

swah wrote: post #7

Ì wonder if some Emacs people intend to migrate to LightTable in a few years?

I don't "plan" to, but I hope for it to be possible. In a couple of years, yes.

LightTable shows great promise as an editor and it's design makes it well suited to being an environment in the future.

I'm just worried that before LT gets to become what I want it to Emacs will already have what is attractive in LT. For me it's ClojureScript and much more flexible UI. If Emacs gets Guile as it's scripting language (and I think: Scheme > Clojure > Elisp) and it's UI somewhat reworked (and threads, and easy bindings to compiled code - all of which is being worked on or at least seriously considered), the decision to migrate to LT will get much harder.

Anyway, LT is the only possible choice for me other than Emacs. There is no other editor which could replace Emacs for my use cases and I don't see new ones emerging.

As a side note: I have some hope for editor embedded in Pharo. It got much better this year and continues to evolve, and being a part of Smalltalk image it is very easily hackable. Having strong editor with things like Moose/Roassal/Glamour natively integrated would be a huge win, but that's probably something I will need to do myself :)

Re: Emacs, naked

#134

Post by terhechte »

blueblob wrote: post #132
terhechte wrote: post #2

Coming from Vim, when I switched to Emacs, I found the starting aesthetic experience more than lacking (or, ugly). It took me some time (and a helpful HN discussion) until I found good themes and good plugins to make it look aesthetically pleasing (to my eyes, at least, after all people's tastes differ). If somebody is looking for a nice Emacs theme and feels that the OP is a bit too minimal, have a look at my Emacs…

Not trying to be a douche, but trying to get an honest answer: if you are coming from Vim, using Evil-Vim to get Vim-like commands why use Emacs in the first place? What features do you use/did you want that made you switch?

Primarily I wanted to write my own extensions in an integrated language with a good, honed, text api. Vimscript is really not so nice, and Emacs has a fantastic text / editor API that's a pleasure to work with.

Other features that were important to me were - Org Mode (I'm using it for all documentation now)

- Usability: As described below, every function in the editor can be accessed with a quick command (with pattern matching to find the correct one) vs. knowledge of arcane commands in vim. Also, most modes offer convenient access to all their features in the menu bar. So when I'm using a Clojure mode, and I can't currently remember the correct command / keystroke for changing the current Repl namespace to my current file, I click the menubar and there it is. All neatly listed. Makes it a lot easier.

- I like the Emacs way of having all in one window. I have one big fullscreen window with multiple buffers, and in there I have a terminal, a repl, multiple code windows, html documentation. So I never have to leave that mode. Keeps me productive. That is also kinda possible with tmux and Vim, but then I always had overlapping keyboard shortcuts for switching windows. All in all Emacs works better for me here.

- Lots of small things, in general Emacs feels like a much more solid editor, with more configuration options to fit it to my liking.

Re: Emacs, naked

#135

Post by kinleyd »

fafner wrote: post #9
kinleyd wrote: post #4

-1, 1 and t have worked for me in setting most modes except that blasted scroll-bar-mode, which it turns out calls for a 0 - what the heck! Thanks for a super post.

(scroll-bar-mode -1) and M-- 1 M-x scroll-bar-mode RET both work for me.

Yeah, when 0 also didn't work, I took another look at it. Turns out I needed to call (add-hook 'server-visit-hook 'my-custom-function) with the call to scroll-bar-mode inside my custom function, because I'm working off an emacsclient. Now I have my choice of -1, 0, nil, etc. Finally sorted out. :)

Re: Emacs, naked

#136

Post by blueblob »

terhechte wrote: post #134
blueblob wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to be a douche, but trying to get an honest answer: if you are coming from Vim, using Evil-Vim to get Vim-like commands why use Emacs in the first place? What features do you use/did you want that made you switch?

Primarily I wanted to write my own extensions in an integrated language with a good, honed, text api. Vimscript is really not so nice, and Emacs has a fantastic text / editor API that's a pleasure to work with. Other features that were important to me were - Org Mode (I'm using it for all documentation now) - Usability: As described below, every function in the editor can be accessed with a quick command (with patter…

Fair enough.

Lots of people dislike vimscript and although I think you can also write plugins using python, it also seems more difficult to interface with.

I know that you can have a big fullscreen window with multiple buffers and a terminal and a repl in terminal vim without tmux. I guess you are not interested but you could see multiple buffers with :vsplit or :split to get vertical and horizontal splits, respectively. There are plugins for a terminal/repl.

Org mode sounds interesting to me, one of the things that I miss from eclipse is that I could see the javadoc when I held the mouse over an object/method/function, is that what Org mode does?

Thanks for the reply.

Re: Emacs, naked

#137

Post by willismichael »

username223 wrote: post #15
swah wrote: post #7

Ì wonder if some Emacs people intend to migrate to LightTable in a few years?

I wonder what the fad-editor in LightTable's place will be called in a few years?

What was it a few years ago? I'm going to guess that whatever the answer is, it didn't have anywhere near the extension capability of either Emacs or LightTable.

Re: Emacs, naked

#138

Post by jfb »

aaronem wrote: post #87
ics wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you accidentally quit the Emacs GUI, does it still kill the daemon?

If you run it with --daemon, the server process doesn't create a frame of its own, but only listens for connections from emacsclient instances; IIRC it also rebinds C-x C-c to delete-frame (also available at C-x 5 0), and the daemon process stays alive through everything short of M-x kill-emacs or similar.

If you're on a Mac (as I am) it leaves an Emacs application running (complete with menu bar and app switcher icon) that you can't interact with. But otherwise, --daemon works great.

Re: Emacs, naked

#139

Post by terhechte »

blueblob wrote: post #136
terhechte wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Primarily I wanted to write my own extensions in an integrated language with a good, honed, text api. Vimscript is really not so nice, and Emacs has a fantastic text / editor API that's a pleasure to work with. Other features that were important to me were - Org Mode (I'm using it for all documentation now) - Usability: As described below, every function in the editor can be accessed with a quick command (with patter…

Fair enough. Lots of people dislike vimscript and although I think you can also write plugins using python, it also seems more difficult to interface with. I know that you can have a big fullscreen window with multiple buffers and a terminal and a repl in terminal vim without tmux. I guess you are not interested but you could see multiple buffers with :vsplit or :split to get vertical and horizontal splits, respectiv…

I know about vsplit and split, what I meant was a better terminal than conqueterm. Now, the Emacs ansi-term is also not perfect, but way better than Conqueterm.

Org mode is a very sophisticated Todo and documentation and wiki and calendar and management and literal programming system for Emacs. I haven't found anything that compares to it. It is really really good.

The java doc thing is something entirely different, and that's usually made possible by the various language modes.

Re: Emacs, naked

#140

Post by stevenrace »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #27

(shameless plug) Don't you want a nice Nyan Cat in that modeline in the sky? ;). http://nyan-mode.buildsomethingamazing.com/

Even though 'Nyan Cat' breaks things other plugins I'd like to use (like Powerline.el) - I still use it anyway.

It's silly and I'm glad you made it.

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