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MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

mantia.me

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Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#151
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in no way confused. The three color components of an LCD pixel are not in the same spatial location. Look closely and you will find three rectangular areas, one for each color. The only colors you can make without combining elements are at the 2^6 or 2^8 variants of red, green, and blue. I subtract two because (ok, I am confused, I only subtracted one before) because the blacks are all the same.

1. If you're seeing the RGB elements separately, you need to sit a little farther back from the screen. :) I can't pick them out individually at all (I can just barely see the pixel grid with the screen an inch from my face), so it's not particularly useful to think of color this way - because nobody sees it like that. 2. Even ignoring this, your numbers are still wrong. 2^6 = 64, and 2^8 = 256.

Continuing our long, invisible thread…

2^6 = 64, but I have red, green, and blue pixels, so times three, but subtract two because all the blacks are the same.

I suppose I'll need to write a small article on this with some pictures. In the process of researching this I was impressed with how useless macrophotography of a screen was. Small changes that are obvious to the human at a distance are invisible when looking at the individual r,g,b elements up close.

I'm away from my camera that can output RAW data, maybe with it and some numerical image analysis I can tell if there is multipixel dithering going on, but my human eye isn't going to tell, even from magnified pictures.

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't actually intend to make actual speaker "goodness" into a factor in the discussion, but I see now that it seems to have done so; the scare quotes were to indicate that a non-engineer (even a musician who isn't also an engineer) would possibly prefer consumer speakers because they often smooth the sound and boost some frequencies often perceived as being "good". As you note, consumer speakers (at most price po…

I've got a pair of Quested F11's (the sexy purple version) at home, and I think they sound really "good" :) They're the best investment I've ever made, but I'm just a music-enthusiast. I was roughly aware of the issues you brought up, and it was a very good and thorough explanation. I guess I just wanted to point out that there are even "normal people" out there who appreciate accuracy/quality in speakers. It's impor…

Actually I agree that folks who want a really great set of speakers probably should go for a reputable brand of studio monitors and appropriate amp (these days some studio monitors are powered and need no amp). You'll get better accuracy and less hype (marketing and/or frequency response, or both) than from high end audio speaker manufacturers. I'm suspicious of most high end "audiophile" products, because there's so much superstition and snake oil surrounding the business. Magic cables that cost hundreds of dollars, electronics suspended to prevent vibrations from altering the sound (this is sane for speakers and mics, not sane for solid state electronics), light switch and cable jack covers that claim to improve the sound of the room, etc. All with obscene price tags. A good set of studio monitors and a good amp isn't cheap, but most of the money you spend goes towards important stuff; like high quality components and a good design.

Folks are always amazed by the audio in my living room...it doubles as my office and home studio, and I have an obscenely overpowered Hafler amplifier driving a pair of Tannoy System 600 speakers. Those little speakers can shake the house, and they do it while being really precise and clear. I also have bass traps in all the corners and have made more than a passing attempt to make the room balanced and non-reactive, which is something most music consumers have never experienced (a good sounding room is at least as important as the speakers you put in it). It's still not exactly a studio experience, but it's pretty awesome for Rock Band Taco Night. I also just bought a projector and an 80" diagonal screen for our booth at OSCON next week...Rock Band Taco Night will never be the same.

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a pair of Quested F11's (the sexy purple version) at home, and I think they sound really "good" :) They're the best investment I've ever made, but I'm just a music-enthusiast. I was roughly aware of the issues you brought up, and it was a very good and thorough explanation. I guess I just wanted to point out that there are even "normal people" out there who appreciate accuracy/quality in speakers. It's impor…

Actually I agree that folks who want a really great set of speakers probably should go for a reputable brand of studio monitors and appropriate amp (these days some studio monitors are powered and need no amp). You'll get better accuracy and less hype (marketing and/or frequency response, or both) than from high end audio speaker manufacturers. I'm suspicious of most high end "audiophile" products, because there's so…

> Actually I agree that folks who want a really great set of speakers probably should go for a reputable brand of studio monitors and appropriate amp (these days some studio monitors are powered and need no amp).

Right. This is what I keep telling anyone who's interested. Of course, most people are blissfully oblivious to quality (wrt. lots of things)

My speakers are powered though. I'd have no idea what kind of amp to get.

> Magic cables that cost hundreds of dollars

A timeless classic :) Some time last year, I was investigating headphones, and came across a pair of Grados at some shop.

I mentioned that the earpieces felt abrasive, and the "helpful" shop owner suggested I buy a pair of thicker, fluffier ones for around 50 euros. Yes, 50 euros for two pieces of foam or whatever. "THIS.. IS.. FINLAND!!"

He claimed, with a straight face, that the headphones would sound better with the thicker earpieces too, "because they're shaped to better direct sound into your ears" .. :P

> a good sounding room is at least as important as the speakers you put in it

This is particularly unfortunate for me, since I live in a crummy apartment with concrete walls. There's not much I can do about acoustics, short of a considerable (and very costly) renovation.

I bet your Rock Band Taco Nights are awesome :)

By the way, what kind of headphones would you recommend? I'm leaning towards Beyerdynamic DT880(PRO?)'s.

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#154
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who makes a purchase decision base on a product being called "pro"? Actually, as he explained in the article, he made the decision based on specs, and weight.

OK. But he apparently had some expectation related to the Pro nomenclature: I complained that it was a Pro machine, and should be treated as such.

I'd say that the Pro nomenclature is meant to raise expectations anyway, and it's certainly true that Macs are used almost exclusively by his kind of professionals. Not an unreasonable expectation then.

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I agree that folks who want a really great set of speakers probably should go for a reputable brand of studio monitors and appropriate amp (these days some studio monitors are powered and need no amp). You'll get better accuracy and less hype (marketing and/or frequency response, or both) than from high end audio speaker manufacturers. I'm suspicious of most high end "audiophile" products, because there's so…

> Actually I agree that folks who want a really great set of speakers probably should go for a reputable brand of studio monitors and appropriate amp (these days some studio monitors are powered and need no amp). Right. This is what I keep telling anyone who's interested. Of course, most people are blissfully oblivious to quality (wrt. lots of things) My speakers are powered though. I'd have no idea what kind of amp…

I'm not SwellJoe, but I'll jump in to recommend Sony's MDR7506 headphones. These aren't consumer junk. They're comfortable, sound good, and are widely used by professionals for soundboard, editing, and broadcasting work. Next time you go to a show, take a look at the soundboard - chances are the folks working it will be wearing 7506 headphones.

I think they're about 1/2 to 1/3 the price of those Beyerdynamics, too.

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#156
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. If you're seeing the RGB elements separately, you need to sit a little farther back from the screen. :) I can't pick them out individually at all (I can just barely see the pixel grid with the screen an inch from my face), so it's not particularly useful to think of color this way - because nobody sees it like that. 2. Even ignoring this, your numbers are still wrong. 2^6 = 64, and 2^8 = 256.

Continuing our long, invisible thread… 2^6 = 64, but I have red, green, and blue pixels, so times three, but subtract two because all the blacks are the same. I suppose I'll need to write a small article on this with some pictures. In the process of researching this I was impressed with how useless macrophotography of a screen was. Small changes that are obvious to the human at a distance are invisible when looking a…

There's a much easier way to demonstrate multipixel dithering: create a 50% gray bitmap (the scrollbar on an xterm works fine for this) and drag it around on screen. If you see weird color effects, there's multipixel dithering happening.

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually I agree that folks who want a really great set of speakers probably should go for a reputable brand of studio monitors and appropriate amp (these days some studio monitors are powered and need no amp). Right. This is what I keep telling anyone who's interested. Of course, most people are blissfully oblivious to quality (wrt. lots of things) My speakers are powered though. I'd have no idea what kind of amp…

I'm not SwellJoe, but I'll jump in to recommend Sony's MDR7506 headphones. These aren't consumer junk. They're comfortable, sound good, and are widely used by professionals for soundboard, editing, and broadcasting work. Next time you go to a show, take a look at the soundboard - chances are the folks working it will be wearing 7506 headphones. I think they're about 1/2 to 1/3 the price of those Beyerdynamics, too.

Thanks for the tip! :)

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#158
post #59
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can the human eye seriously tell the difference? I'd be interested in some stats...

Yes, when next to similar colors - ie, smooth gradients will show banding.

I don't suppose you know of a web page with appropraite gradients, by any chance?
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