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Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

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Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#191
post #91

Absolutely horrifying. More so because there are actually people here in this thread defending the crazy person who's trying to destroy somebody's life because they don't like the company he works for.

No, there aren't "people"; there is "a person", me. Just one person. Everyone else is speculating on how the poor little "Googler"'s life is destroyed by a naive peaceful protest, derailing the issue with anti-left wing jokes, suggesting that "Googlers" carry weapons, and so on. HN at its best: when its ideological toe is stepped on. popcorn

I'm a marxist - certainly not aligned with any right wing libertarians. But right from the headline that article disgusts me.

Unless they have concrete proof that this specific guy have done something particularly bad (and they've not presented any), calling him out by name and with photos of his home is way over the line to begin with.

Not only is it creepy, it is deeply counterproductive and will only serve to alienate people that might otherwise be sympathetic.

What they describe as a "pompous two story palace with stone lions guarding the door" looks to me like a quite average suburban house. Yes, I get that there are people substantially worse off, but they're not getting any sympathy with crap like that.

Further, trying to dehumanise him with their descriptions of him as a "robot" and contrasting him with his child, and their use of words like "evil" ought to make everyone concerned.

This is not progressive. On the contrary, this is moronic petit bourgeois luddites staging ineffective and creepy demonstrations that will achieve nothing but play straight into the hands of their opponents.

It also shows that they fundamentally fail to understand the mechanisms they are fighting. Everyone on the other side will see what they are doing as perfectly reasonable. They are just "hacking the system" and following consequences. The moment they are described as "evil" and faced with personal demonstrations, these guys start creating enemies, when they could instead have searched for partners.

But these clowns use socialist terms while they clearly don't understand much of its basis. Marx, for example, was very clear in his agitation against the kind of moronic vilification demonstrated in this text: The typical capitalist, and those aiding him, according to Marx, is no more evil than the worker he oppresses - capitalist and worker alike for the most part are trapped in the same machine, and have little choice but to stick to their roles: A capitalist that stops exploiting labour will fail, and end up a labourer by necessity himself. Marx was not against the capitalist. He was not even against the capitalist system per se - on the contrary, he realised that for any chance of socialism to succeed, it would be _essential_ to bring about the economic development and automation required to be able to meet the needs of everyone.

In fact, socialism as an idea is a child of the industrial revolution more than anything: It arose out of the hope that the industrial revolution would bring about such wealth that poverty could finally be beaten, Marx held that the capitalist system would play out its role once production had reached such a height that poverty could be eradicated.

Socialism originated as an ideology deeply intertwined with a positive view of technology and automation as tools of liberation. To see these guys play modern day luddites and drag out socialism in the same breath just shows a staggering degree of lack of awareness of history. To see them target individuals rather than the system equally so.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#194
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if I as a "techie" feel threatened an oppressed by those individuals I am. I am in no way a right winger I was coming at it form the same direction that those who fought in cable street did. "An injury to one is an injury to all"

"Threatened" and "oppressed", by non-violent assembly and protest? Come on.

A group posts pictures of your house, your name, and detailed descriptions that attempt to dehumanise you and paint you as some supervillain.

Would I feel threatened and oppressed if I was the target of that? Yes. I'd probably make sure I had weapons in the house.

My lunatic meter went off time and time again while reading their flier. I would not for a second trust that there's not at least one crazy guy that decides to take things one step too far in that group.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#195
post #30

Excellent. If engineers and technologists refuse to take personal political and ethical responsibility for the future they help build, they need to be reminded to do so. We need more of this.

so Googlers should take things into their own hands and take "action direct" against those harassing them.

Are you seriously suggesting, Citizen, that the same standard applies both to the oppressor and the oppressed? Have a care, Citizen; such regressionist attitudes court accusations of reactionism.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#196
post #30

Excellent. If engineers and technologists refuse to take personal political and ethical responsibility for the future they help build, they need to be reminded to do so. We need more of this.

No, we don't need more of these pseudo-news articles. Who the hell keeps posting them to HN?

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#197
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how I feel about the protest in general, but I was reacting to the idea that they "haven't hurt anyone". As far as my system of morals is concerned, making someone feel unsafe is still hurting them.

Isn't that kind of the point of a protest? The threat of revolution?

Of course. The essence of the argument is whether or not threatening to maim and murder as necessary, to produce whatever result the protesters hold dear, is a morally sound tactic.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#198

Welcome to Berkeley, I guess. Honestly, it was only a matter of time before the dissident left decided that the software community was just another monied enemy for them to hate. The good news is that nobody really takes them seriously, so if you can tolerate the occasional impotent protest and the (very) occasional WTO-style near riot, you can proceed with your life and ignore them.

For someone completely outside the Bay Area, it can be hard to judge whether this is a big deal or not. The frequency of the news reports makes it seem like all the Google Buses are being blocked / attacked each morning, and now that employees are being targeted individually at their homes. I know it's turned me off accepting jobs in the Bay Area - it isn't the only reason, but it has been part of it. It would be reassuring to know if these are just isolated incidents being magnified by the media lens.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#199
post #49
post #24

I feel for the plight[1] these people are facing, I really do and I want to help. _BUT_ if you started showing up at my home protesting and making my family uncomfortable, that creates a different problem entirely. Anyways I'm assuming this site is fake because I can't find this being reported anywhere else... and I assume the protesters know better than to pull a stunt like this. 1. Let's be clear though, this is a…

What they're doing is trying to make it socially unacceptable to assist the NSA/ DoD, and quite frankly it's overdue. I get the feeling that most of the criticism here against the protesters is because HN identifies with the Google employee(s), not because the protesters are wrong. It's a purely emotional reaction.

I doubt the individual Google engineers are the ones "assisting" the NSA -- remember the angry post[1] when one of them found out the NSA was tapping into their private fiber?

> Fuck these guys. I've spent the last ten years of my life trying to keep Google's users safe and secure from the many diverse threats Google faces.

You are making it seem like these companies had a choice in providing data to the NSA. In reality, the data were either taken without their knowledge or forcefully (i.e., serious legal repercussions if they told anyone or didn't fork it over).

[1]: https://plus.google.com/108799184931623330498/posts/SfYy8xbD...

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#200
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if I as a "techie" feel threatened an oppressed by those individuals I am. I am in no way a right winger I was coming at it form the same direction that those who fought in cable street did. "An injury to one is an injury to all"

"Threatened" and "oppressed", by non-violent assembly and protest? Come on.

They state that they chose to block his personal commute not merely protest at his residence. That means they chose to attempt to prevent him from leaving (since once he left he would be out of their control and may well go to work).

If you were someone that needed to go to work, and needed to drop your child somewhere on the way, and there was a large group of people outside your house with the stated intent of preventing you from doing so, you would not feel threatened? I mean sure they are peaceful while you are inside not attempting to leave, but when you try to oppose their goals by leaving, it raises the question of how dedicated they are to their goal, which I believe would make a rational person feel threatened.

If they had not made the point that the purpose of this was to restrict him from going about life then I would be much more willing to consider the view that he should not feel threatened.

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