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Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

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Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#131

Post by rgj »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #118
ggchappell wrote: post #13

An interesting and apparently well executed effort. But, to be honest, your arguments reek of ignorance. > This is an unfortunate outcome, since Yale’s copyright assertion muddles the argument that Yale’s actions violate Peter and Harry’s freedom of speech. No it doesn't. Whatever Yale's responsibilities in the freedom-of-speech realm may be, they are entirely ethical in nature, as freedom of speech in the legal sens…

In Europe we have database rights (see eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_Directive ) that can be used to prevent others from using your data - under quite narrowly defined conditions AFAIR. Copyright doesn't protect from reuse of data, it's there to protect a particular artistic expression, a particular form if you like. I don't think the USA have anything akin to the European database rights?

the EU database directive only protects databases that are the result of a "substantial investment". That means that in practice only databases that are not a side effect of the core activities of the creator are protected. A course database would not qualify for protection under the database directive since the core activity is teaching, and not publishing courses online.

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#132

Post by sp332 »

thisiswrong wrote: post #63
lionhearted wrote: post #12

When I first left America, I disliked and felt disillusioned with the country. I've now spent more of my adult life outside the States than in the U.S., and I've also come to the opinion that the U.S. is one of the most amazing places in the world. Sometimes it's hard to point to exactly why America is so amazing. And the answer, maybe, is on display here. An undergraduate student at an elite university just innovati…

> I've now spent more of my adult life outside the States than in the U.S., and I've also come to the opinion that the U.S. is one of the most amazing places in the world. Yes. The American backed/sponsored slaughter of innocent men, women, and children across the Middle East and Africa in the name of profit, power, and greed doesn't seem to cross your mind. Also, it's clear that as an American you have free speech,…

It's because of "standard being-an-American stuff" that people could possibly stand up to entrenched political and financial interests and have a hope of stopping them, which we do.

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#133

Post by ps4fanboy »

mhb wrote: post #14

Yale’s copyright assertion muddles the argument that Yale’s actions violate Peter and Harry’s freedom of speech This misguided appeal to freedom of speech does not strengthen his argument.

Why do you think its misguided?

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#134

Post by ps4fanboy »

blablabla123 wrote: post #6

Evaluations hurt the professors' feelings and pride, so they are not published. Politics is probably the only area in which evaluations (a.k.a. votes, surveys, news articles/comments) are published.

I am sure students feelings are hurt when they pay tuition for a really poorly run/designed subject.

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#135

Post by mhandley »

naaaaak wrote: post #124

The Dean’s response is such a typical academia response. It showcases the hypocrisy of these institutions and the fiefdom of a bureaucrat. Too many academic institutions claim they are all about learning and growing and leadership, until you do something they disapprove of in the slightest way, usually because it rocks their boat in the slightest way. We’ve seen how Stalin-esque they act when they don’t get their way…

If I understood the Dean's position correctly, it was that they didn't want students making course choices based on a single one-dimensional metric, but would rather the students saw the bigger picture before deciding. I can understand this viewpoint; some very good courses have a bi-modal distribution of ratings - students either love or hate them. The trick is to figure out which you'll likely be. You can't see this from the mean.

Where I teach (not at Yale), we've been having difficulty getting the administration to publish teaching metrics at all. This sort of public argument doesn't help matters. I wouldn't be surprised if Yale simply stops publishing the metrics at all if they perceive they're being widely abused.

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#136

Post by fleitz »

ganeumann wrote: post #107
ggchappell wrote: post #13

An interesting and apparently well executed effort. But, to be honest, your arguments reek of ignorance. > This is an unfortunate outcome, since Yale’s copyright assertion muddles the argument that Yale’s actions violate Peter and Harry’s freedom of speech. No it doesn't. Whatever Yale's responsibilities in the freedom-of-speech realm may be, they are entirely ethical in nature, as freedom of speech in the legal sens…

Freedom of Speech is not a legal right, it is an ethical right. It predates its US First Amendment codification by several hundred years and is also legally expressed in many other countries. To use your words, may I suggest you do not couch your arguments in terms of fallacious claims about freedom of speech? I don't think commentators who decried Yale's hypocrisy were claiming that Yale violated the first amendment…

Yes, one might even go as far to say that it's an inalienable right.

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#137

Post by dahart »

ars wrote: post #105
mhp wrote: post #104

"If Yale grants students access to data, the university does not have the right to specify exactly how students must view the data." I disagree strongly with this statement. If the data is owned by Yale, they do in fact have the right to specify exactly how students must view the data. Although it's frustrating to see copyright holders doing illogical or inefficient things with their copyrighted data, it is their rig…

No it isn't. There is no such right. Copyright holders want such a right, but they don't have it. The entire concept of copyright in the first place is artificial - there is no moral copyright. So the only rights you have are the ones copyright gives you, and no more. Not to mention there is no database right in the US, so they don't even have a copyright on the course database in the first place! (They do on the des…

Actually, separate moral rights on copyrighted works do exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights

They likely do not apply to a University's course catalog and, but FYI moral rights are real.

Also, under US copyright law, all 'works' & 'creations' are automatically protected, and the creator owns the copyright. This very likely can and does apply to databases the same way it applies to art or music. It would be a really bad idea to assume you have the right to copy someone's database just because copyright law doesn't mention databases specifically! ;)

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#138

Post by fleitz »

ericcumbee wrote: post #42

>The story does not end here, however, since there’s a way to distinguish the freedom of speech issue from the copyright claims. Except Yale is a private school. The 1st amendment only protects people's speech from government sanction.

He's addressing the copyright issue, the problem is with out the copyright issue Yale has to make a claim based on censoring speech.

Once Yale starts censoring speech you gain friends with tenure and/or alumni.

He isn't trying this in the court of law, but the court of public opinion.

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#139

Post by muyuu »

atmosx wrote: post #51

I admire the courage and stance of Sean Haufler on this. But out of curiosity, looking at his profile, why would someone who had an internship at Google and worked at FourSquare would need a CS(!!) and Economics(???) degree from Yale? I might understand the Economics part, what about the CS part???

Yale is actually pretty good as an environment for learning.

Re: Yale censored a student's course catalog site. I made an unblockable replacement

#140

Post by ars »

dahart wrote: post #137
ars wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't. There is no such right. Copyright holders want such a right, but they don't have it. The entire concept of copyright in the first place is artificial - there is no moral copyright. So the only rights you have are the ones copyright gives you, and no more. Not to mention there is no database right in the US, so they don't even have a copyright on the course database in the first place! (They do on the des…

Actually, separate moral rights on copyrighted works do exist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights They likely do not apply to a University's course catalog and, but FYI moral rights are real. Also, under US copyright law, all 'works' & 'creations' are automatically protected, and the creator owns the copyright. This very likely can and does apply to databases the same way it applies to art or music. It would b…

Those moral rights are the opposite of what I mean. They are restrictions on the copyright owner. The moral rights I meant are if copyright exists from a moral point of view rater than a legal one - and it doesn't.

> It would be a really bad idea to assume you have the right to copy someone's database just because copyright law doesn't mention databases specifically! ;)

It does mention it specifically. It specifically mentions that it doesn't exist. There is no database copyright in the US. (There is in other countries.)

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_copyright

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