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Success at Work, Failure at Home

scott.a16z.com

81–90 of 169 posts

Re: Success at Work, Failure at Home

#81

My wife and I are going through this right now. My wife has a senior director position in a multi-billion dollar financial company, and I am a programmer at a startup. We just had a child several months ago, and it's been very hard trying to balance work and life. It's actually the hardest thing we've both had to do in our lives. Her job is a minimum of 60-hrs per week, but luckily I'm able to limit my work to 40-hrs…

You're a new parent, you're working 40 hours per week and somehow your employers are incredibly supportive?

I don't know what the psychological term is. Cognitive dissonance? Stockholm syndrome?

Re: Success at Work, Failure at Home

#82

So what I'm reading here is why CEOs shouldn't go to the office on weekends and check their mail at dinner. What's glaringly absent from the second part of this article is not asking the engineers to come in on weekends, either. Those guys have families and their negligible equity certainly doesn't justify 80-hour weeks. It sounds to me like the author would rather have gone home on weekends while the engineers staye…

Yeah, after the first part of the article I spent the entire last bit vaguely hoping to see the remorse of having implicitly forced the developers and other executives to make the same decision he made, considering that were I in his shoes I'd feel terrible about how I treated my own family life but even worse about what impact it may (even potentially) have had on other people's families since they had less explicit choice in the matter.

Didn't find it. I guess I'd make a horrible modern CEO, I lack the unflinching confidence to be so self-absorbed.

Re: Success at Work, Failure at Home

#83
post #38
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a child expert, but I doubt children can really start to rationalize "dad's not around but at least he's providing" until well into their teens. And at that point the damage from having an absent father is probably done.

I'm not a child expert either but it doesn't sound like it would be too hard to at least start having those conversations once they even realize you are at work and aren't just hiding behind the front door for 8 hours (9 years to them)

It has to be supported by the other spouse. If my wife is working extreme hours to bring in the income, I have to make sure the kids know that's why she can't be here now.

Re: Success at Work, Failure at Home

#84
post #57

> When we started pulling consistent coding weekends, we brought in the entire management team to serve the engineers: We brought them food, washed their cars, got oil changes, took in their dry cleaning, and arranged for childcare for their kids in the office. Sorry, but while admirable, this is not normal. I may differ from most of HN, but I simply don't see the point in making these kinds of sacrifices as an engin…

That's not the point. The management team is showing solidarity with their team by serving them in the only (more symbolic than economically valuable) ways that they can. It's a symbolic (but real) sharing of the sacrifice, not a straight up bribe. Same reason I've come in on Christmas night (we scheduled the work after the families are reasonably in bed, but the calendar still said "12/25") to spend time with my tea…

But who plans a New Year's Eve datacenter migration? What kind of major site maintenance is needed on Christmas?

It's one thing if it's an unplanned emergency. It's another entirely if it's planned. Planning for work on Christmas or New Year's Eve would be enough to convince me to find employment elsewhere.

Re: Success at Work, Failure at Home

#85
In my view, this applies not just to CEOs, but other people too. I've seen many around me and myself included, concentrate work so hard to achieve what we thought was best for ourselves and to keep our family happy. However, it would take a toll that our mislabeled 'needy' other halves would bear the brunt off. Switching off from work is absolutely necessary to keep a work life balance going and its necessary to keep in mind that there are other things that are just as important, like our spouses, family and our health, without which all the hard work is essentially meaningless. I personally tell myself at the end of the day that the work never ends, there is always something to do, and it can wait for tomorrow.

Re: Success at Work, Failure at Home

#86
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common misunderstanding in young families, and one that causes a lot of damage to families in the long run. The misunderstanding is the assumption that the wife was not working all day. IF she has a job, then she was working. If she stays at home with kids, she was also working. Coming home and relaxing, saying, "Hey, I'm paying the mortgage" is also saying, "Hey, the work my wife did today was worth nothin…

"If she stays at home with kids, she was also working." I think it's reasonable to believe that some jobs are harder than other jobs. Staying home with the kids, while hard (and maybe even boring) isn't as demanding as the jobs that some people have. I have to tell you that I'd rather the person who operates on a heart or a brain or flys a 777 (and there are many more I'm just picking a few obvious ones) focus on the…

I have to tell you that I'd rather the person who operates on a heart or a brain or flys a 777 (and there are many more I'm just picking a few obvious ones) focus on their job 100% and get rest to function at a top level.

Then those people should probably think long and hard about having families, right?

I'm of the opinion that if you really want to devote yourself to a career, you should skip having kids. Interestingly, the same traits that help in career advancement (hard work, willingness to sacrifice) are the same traits that help foster a successful marriage and family. Certainly, a few people can pull off both, but I suspect those people are the exceptions, not the rule.

Re: Success at Work, Failure at Home

#87
post #72
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If she stays at home with kids, she was also working." I think it's reasonable to believe that some jobs are harder than other jobs. Staying home with the kids, while hard (and maybe even boring) isn't as demanding as the jobs that some people have. I have to tell you that I'd rather the person who operates on a heart or a brain or flys a 777 (and there are many more I'm just picking a few obvious ones) focus on the…

Oooh, that could be a controversial point of view. I've done a fair bit of the stay-at-home dad thing and I found it HARD. There something unremitting about dealing with the demands of small children while trying to keep the house clean and food on the table (and while my office life was all about getting rid of repetitive tasks, stuff like cleaning and cooking just has to be done again and again, which I found very…

Very much agreed. For me staying home with my kid is much harder than going to work. It is boring, repetitive, frustrating...mentally draining.

Re: Success at Work, Failure at Home

#88
post #81

My wife and I are going through this right now. My wife has a senior director position in a multi-billion dollar financial company, and I am a programmer at a startup. We just had a child several months ago, and it's been very hard trying to balance work and life. It's actually the hardest thing we've both had to do in our lives. Her job is a minimum of 60-hrs per week, but luckily I'm able to limit my work to 40-hrs…

You're a new parent, you're working 40 hours per week and somehow your employers are incredibly supportive ? I don't know what the psychological term is. Cognitive dissonance? Stockholm syndrome?

After working the first few months and taking days/weeks off whenever I wanted to, I took an entire month off with full pay and no PTO days. They didn't even question it. If I need to take more time off on the order of months, it wouldn't be a problem. On top of that I had to push out some deadlines by a couple of months. That's incredibly supportive in my book.

Re: Success at Work, Failure at Home

#89

So what I'm reading here is why CEOs shouldn't go to the office on weekends and check their mail at dinner. What's glaringly absent from the second part of this article is not asking the engineers to come in on weekends, either. Those guys have families and their negligible equity certainly doesn't justify 80-hour weeks. It sounds to me like the author would rather have gone home on weekends while the engineers staye…

I'm only going to reply to this because so many of you got this impression. My take was "very early on you have to do these incredibly long development hours to ship a product, hit a milestone, and raise" The engineer's were looking at a rough 3 - 6 months of weekends etc. The CEO was looking at a rough 7 years. I'm not advocating that the engineers needed to even do that rough 3 -6 months just highlighting why I think he doesn't show remorse vs talk about the pain of CEO's.

Re: Success at Work, Failure at Home

#90
post #5

I very clearly remember the week this clicked in my brain. Being very successful, really crushing it, and whining to my wife that the company should give more vacation, and her reminding me that I had been at work on Christmas Eve. My whole perspective collapsed around that instant. I could see the hit in career path I was going to take by changing my perspective, but I decided to do it anyway. And I have always been…

There appears to be an implicit assumption in many of these comments that success is measured solely by career progress. The vibe seems to be something like: "How can I successfully compete with these folks who do nothing but work?"

The truth is, maybe you shouldn't try. Clayton Christensen, author of the mega-influential book, "The Innovator's Dilemma," wrote another book that addresses this issue called, "How Will You Measure Your Life?" In it, he recounts how none of his bright, talented, and good-natured classmates from Harvard Business School graduated with plans to get divorced, become ostracized from their children, and end up in prison. Yet some of them did.

He claims that it's easy to optimize for career success because it's straightforward to measure, whereas success in relationships and raising children is only apparent after many years of hard work.

Ultimately, the book encourages its readers to determine their own definition for success and build a strategy to achieve it. If your definition of success includes a certain minimum level of career accomplishment, but also strong, happy relationships, and satisfaction from meaningful volunteer work, then you should not optimize solely for career accomplishment. And perhaps you shouldn't feel weighed-down by the need to compete with exclusively-career-focused individuals.

Quote from interview with Clayton Christensen putting this advice into practice: "Most people have never thought through how they're going to allocate their time. You need to make a decision in advance. I never work on Saturday. I don’t ever work on Sunday either. If you make that decision on a macro level once, when all the incremental decisions arise on an incremental basis, life is easier." http://www.businessinsider.com/clay-christensen-how-will-you...

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