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Bay Area tech boom not cause of region's problems

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Re: Bay Area tech boom not cause of region's problems

#51
post #29

So, first off, it needs to be acknowledged that this was written by the "Bay Area Council", which is a PR machine for a dues-paying group of bay area corporations, including Facebook and Google [1]. Consider the source. Second, while I'm the first to acknowledge that SF needs to build up, it's clearly absurd to say that the tech boom is "not the cause" of the city's housing problems -- that's like saying that skiing…

> It's plain that tech is the proximal cause

It's half of the proximal cause. Housing prices have increased because of the interaction of supply and demand. Blaming the tech boom focuses only on the demand side, but the supply constraints (height limits, zoning density limits, etc.) are just as important.

Re: Bay Area tech boom not cause of region's problems

#52
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as people have pointed out elsewhere in this discussion, the transit situation in NY is an order of magnitude better than SF. I agree with the SF is to Manhattan what the greater Bay Area is to the boroughs of New York analogy. But there's a pretty massive difference when it comes to public transit.

Okay, so build better transit instead of playing stupid games to "combat gentrification."

[deleted]

Re: Bay Area tech boom not cause of region's problems

#53
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really interested in the NYC comparison. I don't know anything about city planning or the history of it, but places like New York must have gone through similar transitions. What worked, what didn't? I feel like there has to be a lot of history to learn from on the topic.

Things that don't work: rent control, historical preservation restrictions, burdensome light air and view restrictions. Things that do work: letting rich people move in, letting developers build what they want, and using that massive tax base to build high-quality public transit.

Letting developers do whatever they please is a horrible idea. Most developers are crooks and do whatever they can to make the most amount of money, which is why most cities have city plans and zones to prevent developers from shitting on everything.

Secondly, historical preservation makes a city what it is. Would Paris be the same without the Eiffel Tower? Good historical preservation enhances and defines the city.

Re: Bay Area tech boom not cause of region's problems

#54
post #29

So, first off, it needs to be acknowledged that this was written by the "Bay Area Council", which is a PR machine for a dues-paying group of bay area corporations, including Facebook and Google [1]. Consider the source. Second, while I'm the first to acknowledge that SF needs to build up, it's clearly absurd to say that the tech boom is "not the cause" of the city's housing problems -- that's like saying that skiing…

> It's plain that tech is the proximal cause It's half of the proximal cause. Housing prices have increased because of the interaction of supply and demand. Blaming the tech boom focuses only on the demand side, but the supply constraints (height limits, zoning density limits, etc.) are just as important.

The supply didn't decrease. The demand increased. That's the proximal cause.

Re: Bay Area tech boom not cause of region's problems

#55
post #25

"tech's shuttles are a godsend, eliminating 327,000 cars" That doesn't seem accurate. Over a third of San Francisco's population leaves town on tech buses?

"tech's shuttles are a godsend, eliminating 327,000 cars and 10,000 tons of carbon every year at no cost to the taxpayer" I presume this means 327,000 car trips per year.

That seems much more reasonable - assuming 260 work days a year and 2 trips per day, we'd be looking at just under 450 cars off the roads due to shuttles.

Re: Bay Area tech boom not cause of region's problems

#56
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a recent nyc -> sf transplant, i think the best short term solution to making living in the bay area more affordable is to run one track of bart back and forth from 12am - 4am. SF needs a brooklyn, a real brooklyn, that you can get to when your shift at the restaurant/bar/other-service-job ends at 1am. Public infrastructure is a public good, and service industry workers can't be expected to cab it to oakland when…

From what I understand, Bart needs that 12-4 timeslot for track maintenance. > Unlike some public transit systems with multiple sets of tracks on the same routes, BART doesn't have the duplication that would allow us to run trains on one set while performing maintenance on another. Third-rail power has to be shut down for maintenance crews to be able to operate safely and do the work that keeps the system safe and re…

It doesn't actually require extra tracks to run a 24/7 metro and also do maintenance. A very common solution is single-tracking. BART has two tracks, one for trains in each direction. What some systems do is just close one side for maintenance, and then run trains on the other side in both directions. For low-frequency service (e.g. hourly night service) it can just be a single train shuttling back and forth end-to-end. For higher-frequency service a few other options are possible. You can split the route into smaller segments (say, in half) and have one train shuttling back-and-forth on each segment. Customers change trains at segment boundaries if they want to go further. Alternately, some systems can run trains fully in opposite directions, if there is a siding somewhere along the route that can be used for passing.

The Copenhagen metro is a 24/7 system, without extra tracks, that uses this method. On maintenance nights a usual pattern is a brief complete-service shutdown 1:00-1:30am to switch from regular operation to single-tracking. One track is taken out of service and powered down, and service at ~20-minute headways resumes on the remaining track. The Atlanta subway also uses this method for longer weekend maintenance sometimes, going to single-track mode all weekend (they don't do 24/7 operation, though, I would guess due to budget issues).

It's possible BART can't do maintenance with single-track operation due to how it's set up, but their message implies it's physically impossible without having spare tracks, which is not true in other systems.

Re: Bay Area tech boom not cause of region's problems

#57
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a recent nyc -> sf transplant, i think the best short term solution to making living in the bay area more affordable is to run one track of bart back and forth from 12am - 4am. SF needs a brooklyn, a real brooklyn, that you can get to when your shift at the restaurant/bar/other-service-job ends at 1am. Public infrastructure is a public good, and service industry workers can't be expected to cab it to oakland when…

Alternatively, SF could just legalize privately owned buses.

Aren't they already legal? Here's a story about a private bus service, which SFMTA seems to have reacted positively to (see the quote at the end): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/29/leap-transit_n_3354...

The biggest controversy seems to be over where private buses that don't have their own private loading/unloading infrastructure can stop and load/unload. Some cities tolerate unofficial use of public bus stops, or look the other way when buses load/unload in a blatantly illegal way (by just stopping in a lane of traffic and blocking it, as "Chinatown buses" typically do). Other cities are less tolerant of that. But when private buses actually pay for their own private loading/unloading facilities on land they either own or properly rent, like Greyhound does, then there's no problem.

Re: Bay Area tech boom not cause of region's problems

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, SF could just legalize privately owned buses.

Aren't they already legal? Here's a story about a private bus service, which SFMTA seems to have reacted positively to (see the quote at the end): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/29/leap-transit_n_3354... The biggest controversy seems to be over where private buses that don't have their own private loading/unloading infrastructure can stop and load/unload. Some cities tolerate unofficial use of public bus stops…

No, they are not legal: "To fit under CPUC's regulatory rebric, charter party carries can't just pick passengers up on the street, like taxis or traditional buses do, which is why Leap rides need to be ordered ahead of time through the company's iPhone app."

Cities don't allow private busses to obtain curb rights in the first place.

Greyhound is intercity, not intracity. Useless for this purpose.

The only controversy stems from taxis & muni busses protecting their turf.

You may know them as Jitneys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_taxi

Re: Bay Area tech boom not cause of region's problems

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, if you disagree with this, you basically disagree with the free market. I do disagree with the notion that a free market (not that such a thing has ever or will ever exist) always leads to socially optimal outcomes, yes. > I don't think randomly gifting scarce housing space to people is better. Nobody is suggesting random gifting.

Whether or not free markets are the best way to allocate housing is another debate in of itself. I think they are, but the question for you is what specific method of allocating housing would be better? The beauty of free markets is that they are often, given time, self-correcting (not in all situations, which is one reason we have regulation in general). In any other market, rising housing prices would stimulate dev…

> In any other market, rising housing prices would stimulate developers to build more housing

It's not clear to me that this would actually bring down prices, and existing empirical evidence of how development increases in urban cores affects prices is pretty mixed. If all else were held equal, adding supply would bring down prices. However all else tends not to be equal, and development sprees seem to often generate their own upward-spiraling demand, which sometimes actually increases prices above what they previously were, by attracting more demand than the newly added supply satisfies. Some of the concern over gentrification (though often poorly investigated) is about what those mechanisms are. One pattern is upgrading of housing stock, e.g. replacement of 100 mid-range old housing units with 200 high-end new housing units, which often has the effect of increasing all three quantities: price, supply, and demand. That can then lead to some circular migration, as wealthier people move in to the city and poorer people move to formerly-well-off suburbs which as the houses age and deteriorate, become poorer (common in "inner-ring" suburbs of American cities).

That can be good for other reasons, if you see more dense housing as a good in itself. Even if SF ends up more expensive than before, you might prefer an SF with 1 million people over one with 825k. However other people disagree that this shuffling around of rich/poor people is a net improvement. That's something of a subjective debate. However on the more objective question of whether redeveloping SF will solve the specific problem of housing costs, I'm skeptical: I suspect redevelopment of SF will not have much impact on its affordability.

Re: Bay Area tech boom not cause of region's problems

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't they already legal? Here's a story about a private bus service, which SFMTA seems to have reacted positively to (see the quote at the end): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/29/leap-transit_n_3354... The biggest controversy seems to be over where private buses that don't have their own private loading/unloading infrastructure can stop and load/unload. Some cities tolerate unofficial use of public bus stops…

No, they are not legal: "To fit under CPUC's regulatory rebric, charter party carries can't just pick passengers up on the street, like taxis or traditional buses do, which is why Leap rides need to be ordered ahead of time through the company's iPhone app." Cities don't allow private busses to obtain curb rights in the first place. Greyhound is intercity, not intracity. Useless for this purpose. The only controversy…

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