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Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

lists.w3.org

331–340 of 424 posts

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#331

Email the W3C. Tell them what you think of this bullshit (in reasonably polite manners). I've done it. I've gotten a non-canned response. But clearly they need more people at the gates bitching. This needs to be stopped.

"they need more people at the gates"

Their Cambridge office is indeed in the Gates tower of building 32. But the "gates" are sliding glass doors.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? How about turning that around: how is it okay for me to pay more for something, solely because I live in a different country? This is known as the 'Australian Tax' here, and is at the point where for some software products (Microsoft's dev tools, e.g.) it's cheaper to buy a budget flight to the USA, buy them there, then return. Geographical pricing is morally indefensible.

I'm talking about lowering the cost in areas to match the economy. I too think the cost of software in Australia is crazy.

They are the same thing. The exact same thing. All you're quibbling about is that you don't like where the pricing is set for the region in which you live.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The failure of the Dreamcast was the pitifully small library, not piracy.

the dreamcast had 700+ games, more than gamecube and xbox combined

390 of which were only released in Japan.

The xbox actually had ~900 games and the GameCube had ~700.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dreamcast_games

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_GameCube_games

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_games

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The failure of the Dreamcast was the pitifully small library, not piracy.

the dreamcast had 700+ games, more than gamecube and xbox combined

Wikipedia lists 967 games for the xbox alone. The Gamecube appears to have come in somewhere around 500 or so. But it's probably worth noting that no one ever claimed either of those consoles had massive libraries, either.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#335
post #198
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

steam is just like any other drm system for your games. it phone home and prevents you from playing without a connection to the mothership. they just have saner fallback times than other ill talked solutions from EA. but besides its pretty eyes, its the same virus. good luck running online games as root.

I once bought and downloaded SuperHexagon on Steam but didn't have the time to test it at home. Later on the train (I'm commuting for two hours a day) I wanted to test it. Sadly I wasn't allowed without a internet connection which was really annoying.

Sometimes the game executable doesn't actually require you to be online the first time you launch it, even though Steam does. If you launch the binary from Windows explorer, there's a chance it'll work.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DRM-free . . . Steam How is Steam DRM-free? You must first log in to your Steam account in order to play. Locked down. They seem to do it with very good UX, but it's DRM. I think this negates the first part of your thesis: that DRM-free is picking up.

They can also remove games from the store and from users' libraries: http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/12/30/steam-remove...

From the store, anyway. The update at the end of the article states that they were wrong, and the single player game is still in users' libraries.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#337
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the solution you would want, a plugin. That way the DRM is not part of every browser being made, it's an add-on that individuals can decline to install. Content providers want this and they will eventually get it, one way or another. If they don't get their plugin then they'll go with their deep pockets to demand laws that require all browsers to have this tech by default, without your choice. Which would…

What you are saying is just ridiculous. Adding DRM to HTML5 will destroy the open web and not preserve it. First of all the DRM proposal does NOT talk about plugins. The DRM support won't be plugins. Microsoft already implements the spec in their latest IE and it doesn't work with plugins at all. They ship Microsoft's DRM technology as the one and only available DRM. Which is perfectly fine according to the spec. So…

That's the initial proposal that I was aware of so if it's changed since then I suppose I'm no longer up to date. That's fine.

But it is not ridiculous thought for this to plugin based, especially if your only example is Microsoft. I suppose Apple and Google will build it into their browsers since they support this. I suppose it's ridiculous that I said it but it's the solution you support by your very own words? If the content providers make their own crappy plugins the browser needs a way to communicate to that crappy plugin, which is exactly what I've always understood this proposal to be and exactly what I stated.

You don't think that an industry with the backing that the entertainment industry can't get this done? It's silly to think that? Where do you think the DMCA came from in the first place?

Now, I'm only talking about DRM for video and audio elements. If you're talking about DRM across the board for every aspect of what makes a web page, then I'm with you.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#338
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general public doesn't have an issue with DRM, they happily purchase the content as-is today. They may grumble when they have to purchase a movie for the second or third time but they continue to do so. Therefore the public, being people with money, have stated overwhelmingly that they want content without stipulating anything about DRM, free or otherwise. You are attempting to apply your viewpoint on the general…

Hollywood is delusional, though. They are missing out on a huge potential revenue stream by having DRM-free distribution platforms. Why was Megaupload so popular if people really liked DRM?

What are the numbers for comparing the amount of people who used Megaupload versus people who just paid?

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#339
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally as one of those pirates they are trying to stop piracy is only an issue when your content is not easily accessible the legal way or it is too expensive. I have experienced both. For instance songs are very cheap when your monthly income over £1,500 but when your monthly income is £300 (that's the equivalent in pounds in the country i grew up in) that's a bit too much for just one song. Same for everything…

You are NEVER forced to steal things that aren't essential to survival. Starving on the street and steal a loaf a bread, that's one thing. Don't want to participate in many varied ways of listen to music for free legally and so choosing to steal the next big album you want to hear, not ok, ever.

To play devils advocate, I'm not sure why you think the very poor should be concerned about respecting copyright law.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#340
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general public doesn't have an issue with DRM, they happily purchase the content as-is today. They may grumble when they have to purchase a movie for the second or third time but they continue to do so. Therefore the public, being people with money, have stated overwhelmingly that they want content without stipulating anything about DRM, free or otherwise. You are attempting to apply your viewpoint on the general…

>> The general public doesn't have an issue with DRM, they happily purchase the content as-is today. Do they? >> They may grumble when they have to purchase a movie for the second or third time. So not happily then. And not what they actually want. >> but they continue to do so Because the choice is that or piracy, and many choose piracy. 'Not participating in popular culture' is a choice, but it's never going to be…

>> Do they?

Yes, yes they do. Take a look at the proceeds from those industries and tell me people are not handing over money for said content.

>> So not happily then...

Ah, I see the problem. When I said happily I meant this definition: "felicitously; aptly; appropriately". Meaning they pay because that's what they are supposed to do. My bad. What they want and what they do are two different things. You see, they don't want to pay for multiple copies but they do, not because of DRM. They do so because that's what they are "supposed" to do. This is more of a philosophical, economical, and/or legal issue they complain about, not technological. DRM is technology that most people are probably not even that much aware of in their day-to-day lives.

>> ... many choose piracy...

I didn't claim otherwise. But, as you say, they have the choice to not participate. That's my current answer to what I feel is outlandish cable subscription fees as compared to my perceived value of what they offer. It doesn't work for me, therefore I don't pay for cable. I use other means to access the media that I wish to consume.

>> The general public are dolts...

I think it's rude of you to apply your viewpoint on a large group of people that aren't even aware of your problem. Then when they don't go along with what you think they should be doing or what you think they should know, your method to convince them otherwise is to insult them? You're not going to win anyone over with your argument.

>> Then they have failed...

Due to record profits, I think the situation has worked out quite nicely for them. I think you are exaggerating in your own mind the number of kids who are sharing movies with their families and the impact this actually has.

>> Serious piracy efforts...

If you think trading torrents is serious piracy, then you need to read up on what true media piracy is. I'm not talking streaming or torrenting content. There are areas of the world where you can buy a perfect copy of a DVD or Blu-Ray for very little and the original content owners get nothing. It's a huge industry and I'm not talking just movies/music here. Plus in these areas this is practically endorsed by the local governments as legal. And I believe there's been a few cases of big-time streamers having legal troubles, Megaupload comes to mind. Before you say anything, that fell apart because of government incompetence, not because of the lack of anyone actually breaking the law.

>> It is...

Then you are naive. Stupid people don't make that kind of money and do the things they do. Just because you think they're stupid and you can cast opinions on things they do as stupid doesn't make it true. Their anti-customer interests, which is only a recent thing mind you, are possible due to carefully crafted legal systems that took years of planning and execution that you claim they are too stupid to have accomplished. If you're going to fight this battle then you need to understand what you're up against.

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