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Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

lists.w3.org

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Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#321

Post by duncan_bayne »

shawnz wrote: post #294
Already__Taken wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want to buy and run windows 9? Because to see the new series of the game of thrones only windows 9's CDMs can read it. That is the kind web you are negotiating for. How long do you think MS would back port these things to win7 before they bump their minimumContentPlayer=win8 and then that's it you're not seeing any of that media to you pay up. Perhaps they'll choose to offer a binary for other open source OSs,…

> That is the kind web you are negotiating for. As discussed, that is a motivation that will exist regardless of the W3C's course of action. What I am negotiating for is the W3C being in charge of what access these "big bad companies" have over web standards, rather than allowing the development of similar technologies to continue unmoderated.

The fact that EME is being seriously entertained by the W3C should tell you everything you need to know about the power relationships there. I don't think there's as much 'being in charge' as you think there might be.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#322

Post by duncan_bayne »

xyjztr wrote: post #153

Hey Guys, can somebody create a simple guide, FAQ or something similar for non-tech people to understand what is going on with HTML and DRM? It will help to spread the word.

Actually there's talk on the W3 mailing list of doing just that, covering all the info and debates that have happened to date. I'll post it to HN when / if it's done.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#323

Post by duncan_bayne »

shmerl wrote: post #95

> So, the DRM vendors have solved the problem of creating solutions that meet studio requirements and what we are trying to do with EME is provide a clean API to integrate these solutions with the HTML Media Element. Which reads as: studios have nonsensical requirements, which are implemented and soon broken. And "we" (i.e. W3C) need to oblige this insanity for the sake of . Put your own reason, but I bet it won't be…

I just posted to the list, trying to explain that EME is not a requirement, it is an implementation.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#324

Post by duncan_bayne »

jscheel wrote: post #311
Fuxy wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. I agree forced may be a bit of a strong word since i can always choose not to pirate it. However what about books or scientific papers which are hidden behind pay walls or just incredibly expensive. The price of a good programming book is about £20. But when your monthly income is £300 that is a lot of money. Not to mention you have to pay electricity, gas, etc. and the prices for the utilities are not that much…

I will agree with you that it's definitely important for products to be priced appropriately for the region they are sold in. And, I understand that access to information can be a huge roadblock, which is why it's important for people to free up information as best as possible. Still, when you consider things like public libraries, free access to internet, etc., you have to question whether or not you have really tri…

Really? How about turning that around: how is it okay for me to pay more for something, solely because I live in a different country?

This is known as the 'Australian Tax' here, and is at the point where for some software products (Microsoft's dev tools, e.g.) it's cheaper to buy a budget flight to the USA, buy them there, then return.

Geographical pricing is morally indefensible.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#325

Post by atmosx »

Sssnake wrote: post #316
cbhl wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall DreamCast failing primarily because of piracy -- everyone burned games to CD-Rs instead of buying them.

It is amazing how that myth persists. Piracy was much more common for the playstation, and I seem to recall it did ok.

I even heard that Sony was trying to make their games pirat-able in order to promote them faster and kill the competition, LOL. Don't know if was true, but worked fine.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#326

Post by duncan_bayne »

talmand wrote: post #275
andyzweb wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and we aren't interested in the old content industries. they are "considered harmful" at best

If you're interested in their content, then you are interested in the old content industries. If you aren't interested in their content, then what they do will have little effect on you personally. I require a definition of how they are "considered harmful" because I seriously doubt that.

EME is a good example of harm.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#327

Post by alkonaut »

fafner wrote: post #308
alkonaut wrote: post #189

The only benefit I can see from standardizing something is that browser makers who want to claim to be compliant actually have to support it, so you won't end up in the flash/silverlight situation where some platforms don't support it. But if a plugin framework is standardized, why settle for only DRM? Why not fix the whole crapfest that is plugin applications entirely? A standardized interface to a fast sandboxed vi…

> The only benefit I can see from standardizing something is that browser makers who want to claim to be compliant actually have to support it, so you won't end up in the flash/silverlight situation where some platforms don't support it. Please read the spec. Your assumption is wrong! The EME just defines an API for JavaScript to access an unspecified CDM (the DRM module) in the browser. It does not specify how the D…

You misunderstood me, I think if there should be standardization of some kind of platform indepndent "plugin" it should address what flash, applets, ActiveX and Silverlight does but in a standardized way.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#328

Post by frenchy »

talmand wrote: post #272
jellicle wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UN declaration of human rights includes one sentence talking about the right to food, and many paragraphs talking about the right to participate in culture, community, communicate, and so on. So if we judge by that, the right to participate in culture is more important than the right to food (or more likely, is simply more often challenged and disagreed with). If the whole legal regime around copyright is having…

Wait, are you implying that the UN has declared that stealing the results of someone's labor is justified because it's a "right"? We might as well declare anarchy and get it over with. I also fail to see how copyright laws are preventing anyone from enjoying their culture.

> stealing

You keep using that word without realizing that the rest of us may have already moved on to a different concept of ownership.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#329

Post by jscheel »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #324
jscheel wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will agree with you that it's definitely important for products to be priced appropriately for the region they are sold in. And, I understand that access to information can be a huge roadblock, which is why it's important for people to free up information as best as possible. Still, when you consider things like public libraries, free access to internet, etc., you have to question whether or not you have really tri…

Really? How about turning that around: how is it okay for me to pay more for something, solely because I live in a different country? This is known as the 'Australian Tax' here, and is at the point where for some software products (Microsoft's dev tools, e.g.) it's cheaper to buy a budget flight to the USA, buy them there, then return. Geographical pricing is morally indefensible.

I'm talking about lowering the cost in areas to match the economy. I too think the cost of software in Australia is crazy.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#330

Post by fafner »

alkonaut wrote: post #327
fafner wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only benefit I can see from standardizing something is that browser makers who want to claim to be compliant actually have to support it, so you won't end up in the flash/silverlight situation where some platforms don't support it. Please read the spec. Your assumption is wrong! The EME just defines an API for JavaScript to access an unspecified CDM (the DRM module) in the browser. It does not specify how the D…

You misunderstood me, I think if there should be standardization of some kind of platform indepndent "plugin" it should address what flash, applets, ActiveX and Silverlight does but in a standardized way.

It is - by definition - not possible to have an open standard or libre implementation for DRM. You could simply implement it to dump the stream instead of displaying it.

If you mean the features besides DRM then we don't need a plugin because HTML5 and JavaScript are perfectly fine for replacing those plugins and they can be openly implemented and distributed.

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