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Google to Acquire Nest

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Re: Google to Acquire Nest

#561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The target audience of the Nest is someone who leaves their thermostat on the same temperature setting all the time, whose house is empty a significant portion of the time, and who doesn't have the knowledge or desire to buy a manually programmable thermostat. You don't sound like you are in that audience, but that doesn't mean the audience doesn't exist or that the product is foolish.

IMO, Nest appeals to the people for whom it does the least amount of good: engineers. Engineers and technical people tend to analyze things like their energy bill already. They also tend to love gadgets. A couple of parts of Nest that aren't usually factored in are the convenience factor of using your favorite device to control the thermostat remotely and the cost of your current programmable thermostat. If new home…

Their marketing message is definitely not aimed at engineers:

"Programming thermostats is complicated and irritating - but an un-programmed thermostat can waste 20% of your heating and cooling bill. So the Nest Thermostat programs itself."

Re: Google to Acquire Nest

#562
What I still don't understand is why Google Ventures would lead a Series C round just last week and then this week Google Inc acquires them.

Why even have the Series C round at all then?

Re: Google to Acquire Nest

#563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, no more sarcasm. you've filled this thread with confusion.

Well, I think sarcasm is the appropriate response to a top comment that contains no information besides "I don't like this". He could have told us why he doesn't like this, or give us an example of another company that was acquired by Google where the result was bad for consumers, then at least we could have had a discussion about this. But this way it's only "I don't like this" vs "I like it" and there are definitel…

Motorola not withstanding, Google has a history of killing/closing well-loved products (profitability aside).

While I am not upset by this acquisition, I can certainly understand the sentiment.

I can't speak to validity of the top comment being only that aforementioned opinion, nor am I suggesting that sarcasm was inappropriate, but I think this only highlights the upvote/downvote mechanism as an I agree/disagree button more than a add to/ doesn't add to the discussion button.

Re: Google to Acquire Nest

#564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"hey we found a way to make YT comments even worse" Could they get any worse? Seriously does any normal thinking person really participate and contribute comments in that quagmire? I sometimes I thank Google and Yahoo for creating those honey pots for the internet brain-dead to vent their steam and vitriol, keeping them well away from stuff I like to constructively participate in.

Actually the comment quality on the videos I watch seems to have improved markedly since the G+ integration... Coincidence? No clue... Still, all the "OMG G+ will destroy youtube!1!" whining is looking pretty stupid...

Actually, the comment quality, just like on HN is degrading.

Re: Google to Acquire Nest

#565
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, good for you? That is not the value proposition, that is trivial information about your personal life. I don't know why you felt it necessary to try to duplicate a manufactured device by hand, but that is most certainly not the value proposition. The value proposition is that $200 and letting Google extract value from your life by way of energy prices will somehow pay for the fractional energy saved when the devi…

I didn't duplicate anything. That was my rationale behind not doing what you suggested. Honestly, I'm having a lot of trouble following what you're trying to say. Now you're talking about unauthorized data use and Google manipulating energy prices? I guess?

He is saying you are a single person with a single use case. Therefore your opinion has little value.

Re: Google to Acquire Nest

#566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a shame. He probably misled quite a few people into buying the Honeywell by being the top review. He admittedly never owned a Nest, and that's obvious in his comparison, as not a single point in it is accurate; one must wonder where he came up with them having no first-hand experience. * If Nest isn't on a schedule (whether it's a manually set schedule or the "auto-schedule"), it's holding temp. Like every oth…

> That's a shame. Who knows? Maybe it was written by a Honeywell shill. Worked on me apparently. I will note one other difference which helped sway me to Honeywell is the fact that the Nest requires a battery, while the Honeywell requires "bus" power. I actually didn't have a "C wire" set up before I installed mine, but it was trivial to climb into the attic and re-purpose the fan control wire to instead provide cons…

Nest does have an internal battery than can be charge via a USB port if you ever need to. I bought my Nest used off Craigslist (substantial savings) and have never had any low battery issues. It's bus powered, but the battery smooths over power disruptions.

Re: Google to Acquire Nest

#567
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, motorola products have completely gone down the toilet after that acquisition. They were so great before with fast updates and a wonderful skin of android, and now they're either non-innovative or way too overpriced for the value.

Yeah, and like Android and Youtube. Sarcasm aside, Google has actually done pretty well with acquisitions compared to other companies. (Say ones that begin with "M" or "Y"). You can see the list in wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisition...

Yes and we can find tons of examples where they haven't done well, e.g. Jaiku which they pretty much threw away, Dodgeball which let the founders leave in anger and got them to found Foursquare outside of Google etc...

Re: Google to Acquire Nest

#568
post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lowering the thermostat during warm weather saves a larger portion of the energy for that period. The polar vortex scenario is where a thermostat can help the least. For instance, imagine a home that heats from 50 most of the time. Then it is (1-15/20)/100=25%.

The problem is that at 50 my furnace runs like 3 times a day because the house is built to be comfy down to -30, probably much worse (since it did OK at -20 last week). So you end up saving 25% of very little. This mathematical model would work for a poorly insulated house in an area that never gets cold. So if in Atlanta the furnace is struggling at 50F outside, then this would mathematically work out. The problem o…

Yeah, obviously the specifics matter.

The broader point is that the average heating season temperature at the location is more interesting than the coldest temperature experienced during a given decade.

That still ends up being something like (1-8/50)/100 for a lot of people, so an easy opportunity for 15% during away times (and 70->62 isn't an absurd night setting...).

Re: Google to Acquire Nest

#569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"hey we found a way to make YT comments even worse" Could they get any worse? Seriously does any normal thinking person really participate and contribute comments in that quagmire? I sometimes I thank Google and Yahoo for creating those honey pots for the internet brain-dead to vent their steam and vitriol, keeping them well away from stuff I like to constructively participate in.

Actually the comment quality on the videos I watch seems to have improved markedly since the G+ integration... Coincidence? No clue... Still, all the "OMG G+ will destroy youtube!1!" whining is looking pretty stupid...

I agree... it is still horrible, but it seems to be slightly less horrible now.

Re: Google to Acquire Nest

#570
post #552
post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like what you really mean is that this is not a product which you benefit from, because you work from home and your house is actually continuously inhabited most days; it's an amusing combination of arrogance and naivety to assume that your lifestyle is the only valid option. Beyond that, you're completely missing the point about a smarter thermostat: the savings don't come from the temperature outside is -…

So we've got: 1) doubling is the same as an order of magnitude (or more), ah math who cares. 2) it costs the same amount to heat a house to a given temp no matter the outdoor temp (for a house built to be comfortable down to -30, heating at 40 costs almost nothing) 3) The public is stupid, far too dumb to program something, so lets prey on them with something real expensive that tries to avoid that. 4) average and pe…

I selected the points which were well defined enough to respond to:

> 2) it costs the same amount to heat a house to a given temp no matter the outdoor temp (for a house built to be comfortable down to -30, heating at 40 costs almost nothing)

This is not about how much it costs to heat a house to a given temperature. It's about how often heating or cooling is used when the occupants don't need it.

> 3) The public is stupid, far too dumb to program something, so lets prey on them with something real expensive that tries to avoid that.

The only thing I said on this is that most programmable thermostats have bad UI and I'd extend that bad UI to note that they also tend to assume a rigid schedule. It came as no surprise to me when I read the government studies concluding that programmable thermostats: the Honeywell which my Nest replaced allowed you to set two temperatures per day and there was no way to adjust for changes in your schedule without clicking through the entire schedule — 3 (hour, minute, AM/PM) pairs with two high/low temperature thresholds for 7 days or almost 40 clicks on low-quality buttons which would have shamed a $2 calculator. If you knew you were going to be out late one evening, do you spend 15 minutes clicking through that UX disaster or just say “Meh, we'll heat the house for a couple extra hours”? Maybe you plan to go out for a couple hours mid-day? There's no way to express that short of turning the entire thing off, which is fine part of the year and annoying during the rest when it means you'll come home to a very hot/cold house because there's no way to say “Keep the house over 50° (or under 80°) for the next few hours”.

That's not saying that the public is stupid, it's saying that there's been a market failure in producing decent thermostats. It'd be great if there were options between the Nest and the junk $30 thermostats for people who wanted more intelligence (or just the silly auto-away sensor) but don't mind, say, cheap plastic fittings or losing some of the more processor-intensive features.

> 5) Its OK to rip people off as long as you don't rip them off for more money than other people do.

You're arguing against something which I didn't write.

> 7) Paraphrase to something like I don't like the results of your math equations, so I'll call you smug instead. Come on, you can do better than that. If we're going to go all playground here, "Your mom" me or something.

Your entire argument has been that if people lived exactly the same way as you do and made the same decisions which you've made it's wrong for them to want a Nest. That's smug because it assumes that there are no other valid positions. Using terms like “ripped off” implies a moral judgement rather than, say, people making decisions based on different circumstances. Similarly, assuming that people will finance everything on a bad credit card is implicitly stating that most people who are not you make bad personal financial decisions — that's both insulting and irrelevant to the issue at hand.

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