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Why Tough Teachers Get Good Results

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51–60 of 74 posts

Re: Why Tough Teachers Get Good Results

#51
post #3

Back in high school, our journalism teacher was legendary for his scathing, but usually humorous criticism. And yet the Friday after we published the newspaper, critique day, was one of the most-eagerly anticipated days, as he would alternate between complementing people and then ripping others apart for not just things like punctuation and sentence structure , but higher-level failures such as failing to interview k…

My former High School produces a newspaper, which is distributed to a location that I visit often. I enjoy reading it, oddly enough, in part because there are a variety of issues with the writing that I like getting worked up about.

Re: Why Tough Teachers Get Good Results

#52
post #43

The implications in this article that strict = effective are flat-out stupid. A teacher does not have to be hardass to encourage children to have high expectations and to be OK with failure. I think a truly effective teacher, at all levels, will encourage curiosity and creativity in subject-matter. The best way to do this, in my view, is mutual respect. The teacher's idolised in this article seem to operate through f…

> The implications in this article that strict = effective are flat-out stupid. Perhaps you're right. But what about honest = effective. How often do teachers change a grade because parents call in, or because the student complains? Too often. Whether it's from parents or the institution, there are a lot of outside factors that pressure teachers to give good grades even when they are not deserved. No matter which way…

'Honestly' grading a kid is tricky, especially because, as you mentioned, a teacher's ethics (or lack thereof) may skew things. I'm not sure if it's the exact word I would use but I agree with the principle that metrics should reflect the student's actual state. 'Consistency' is perhaps what I would go with.

Also, I see a difference between being a hard marker and being a harsh teacher. I don't really have a problem with the former, the article here talks mostly about the latter. My problem is with anyone who promotes 'strictness/harshness' in classrooms.

Can't agree enough that there are problems with the system in general, and a society that wants everyone to succeed while also placing so much emphasis on getting people to fit bell curves. I'm working on getting new data out of classrooms right now: quantified engagement, mood, desired learning conditions, preferred methods of content delivery etc.

I think that the main root of the problems we have is a desire for things to be 'right' or 'wrong'. It kills curiosity, engagement and creativity and in no way reflects the real world.

EDIT: clarity

Re: Why Tough Teachers Get Good Results

#53
"a teacher who basically tortured us through adolescence"

This "torture" idea came up in my mind just reading the title. Having a professor that is being harsh only objectively may be good in a limited sense, but in my experience this is just rare (and I had "the joy" of being educated by a good lot of harsh teachers). Being harsh objectively is the only kind that is supposedly beneficial, and it is "supposedly" because its efficiency is just very dependent on the subject's susceptibility. This is rare because it requires a lot of discipline on the teacher's part. Most often than not, around an harsh attitude the reason is pushed aside to make room for ever-dominating emotive behavior. On the teacher's side this leads to an unconstrained way of pulling the strings, and on the pupil's side - to cede and degenerate into fear, close-mindedness, and self disrespect, among many others. Don't get me wrong, the primary results will be there. The teaching's goal will be reached, if we're to ignore the costs (and we often do). I just guess the difficulty of summing it all up or realistically considering the entire thing on its true value as a parent or policy-maker if one hasn't been subjected to it and its effects.

"My old teacher Mr. K seldom praised us. His highest compliment was «not bad.» It turns out he was onto something." "the belief, the faith really, in students' ability to do better."

That of course is valid only if the amount of disparage in pupil's overall social interaction is minor, otherwise there wouldn't be enough confidence to build up in the first place. The writer praises her teacher for his results and concludes that the means must have been justified. I don't. What I see is the most rudimentary automatic negative-reaction based system. Any deviation from the expected parameters causes a literally negative reaction from the ruler that enforces the entire process. A most rudimentary form of teaching. It doesn't need any calibration to student's profile, it doesn't require much refinement of pedagogics as the task of getting back (somehow) in the normal parameters falls mostly on the student, and it definitely relieves the teacher of any kind of stress for the locus of control that is the pupil performance not being in his direct reach. (Actually, a harsh teacher gets rid of his stress in the lessons.) As a researched material this article presents itself, I'm disappointed of the conclusion. I expected efficiency without getting back to the old and brute ways.

The state of the education may not be rosy, but getting into "harsh" seems a bit extreme to me. Instead of "harsh" I would call for "serious". You only need teachers to show you the way and the limits. It's you and only you that should be harsh on yourself, no one else.

Re: Why Tough Teachers Get Good Results

#54
post #22
post #12

Jaime Escalante http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaime_Escalante "In 1987, 27 percent of all Mexican Americans who scored 3 or higher on the calculus AP exam were students at Garfield High" http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_and_Deliver

Wow. I guess I'll have to watch the movie.

It was the go-to movie when we had a math substitute. Definitely recommend watching.

Re: Why Tough Teachers Get Good Results

#55
post #35

"Rote learning, long discredited, is now recognized as one reason that children whose families come from India (where memorization is still prized) are creaming their peers in the National Spelling Bee Championship." Clearly, What America Needs is spelling bee champions.

i checked and indian american kids have won 9 out of the last 13 championships including the last 6 consecutively. http://www.spellingbee.com/champions-and-their-winning-words

Full credit to them: I am not going to disparage anyone for doing something well. Yet when I think of work that the nation and world really need done, spelling recondite words doesn't make the list.

Re: Why Tough Teachers Get Good Results

#56
I find the arguments here are kind of missing the point. Replace the word teacher with the manager, and student with employee and how many of you would continue to agree with the premise of the article? How many of you would continue to agree with the article, if your manager was the one with "strict discipline" and "unyielding demmands"?

Also this article reveres rote learning in a way that I disagree with and I think many of you would disagree with in a context closer to home. How many of you would like to see CS 101 classes be dominated by memorization of semicolon placement in C++?

Re: Why Tough Teachers Get Good Results

#58
In my eyes this kind of vision, that old teaching style is better than new style, derives from old people more out of a sentimental desire than out of real results. Modern teaching methods are very likely much more successful than older one's, because in such kind of details humanity generally is able to improve well (can't provide statistics, though).

People are not completely wrong, though, when they say that the old paradigm was more efficiently executed than the new one. The reason might not be that it is more efficient in general though, but simply that we did it for thousands of years, while the new approach is only done for a few centuries. It's very likely that we go too far and need to add more discipline, but that is part of the stuff science can do and will do in a few centuries anyway.

The main reason I am writing this comment is that I believe the way to progress is forward not backwards. The idea can not be to see that a new paradigm applied for 3-5 generations of teachers is less efficient then the old one that was applied for hundreds or thousands of generations and then just go backwards. The idea should be to improve upon what we do now. Yes, teachers of now need to learn again to be more demanding and they should regain the power to do so with the necessary force. But explanation, praise and convincing need to stay in the game! At least for myself I can say that I learned much more in the last 2 years then in all 13 years of school, because learning on the internet works based on motivation, detailed explanations and rewarding, "gamey" technology and not on old people in front of the class who tell me what an idiot I am.

Re: Why Tough Teachers Get Good Results

#59
Also very important to note: being strict works only when the teacher is actually competent. I've had high school teachers whose understanding of math was basically the textbook + epsilon. They were strict in order to keep the class under control, but they did not inspire me to do my best at mathematics.

Re: Why Tough Teachers Get Good Results

#60
post #27

One of the most concise descriptions of good teachers I've seen actually came from pg in his "rarely asked questions" list. http://www.paulgraham.com/raq.html (1) They had high standards. (2) They liked us. (3) They were interested in the subject. I've been unable to express what makes a good teacher more concretely than that.

I think that's more valid to parenting than to teaching. For me to call one a teacher, one has to have:

(1) Something to teach me.

(2) Willingness to teach me.

(3) A serious attitude towards teaching once he decides on that.

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