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Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

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Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#81

Post by macspoofing »

danso wrote: post #55
macspoofing wrote: post #36

Am I the only one who sees Digital Ocean as acting ethically here? This guy is a jerk. He harassed a guy, because the guy works at Google, into giving him his opinion about a semi-controversial topic in a private forum. Then he writes a blog hit-piece in which he explicitly identifies him and disparages him for the opinion he gave! I don't know if he has a legal right to do this, but you don't just do things like tha…

I sympathize with the Googler, in that his comments may not have been written and polished by a PR person, but they weren't at all as offensive or insensitive as the OP hyped them to be, especially given the constraints of the "meatspace". But look at what you just wrote. That complaint has been raised against Google many times, because Google's index captures not only what you say in public, but what others say abou…

>That complaint has been raised against Google many times, because Google's index captures not only what you say in public, but what others say about you, even if you feel that it is misleading.

What does have to do with anything?!

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#82

Post by leephillips »

macspoofing wrote: post #75
josephlord wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All DigitalOcean asked him to do was to give them editorial control over his blog. That isn't a small thing to me. At a quick glance it looks like a public forum (which has a bearing on how I view the ethics of the situation although even if it was private I don't think DO should act). When you are asked a question about your employer in public you are speaking for them and if you say something dumb that your company…

>I don't see why you assume it wasn't "on the record". Because it's a nice thing to do when you're dealing with private citizens. We're talking ethics here, and the thing about ethics is that they can essentially be boiled down to "don't be an asshole". This blog post can seriously hurt someone who never asked for it and doesn't deserve it. Why not be a little bit fair? If you're not sure if it's "off the record", as…

"all I see is a bully."

I think that's a good word for him. Unfortunately, this is the way many journalists act much of the time - exactly how they create "stories" out of nothing. I guess while playing journalist this guy forgot that the didn't have the resources of a news organization to back him up, and now he has to fend for himself.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#83

Post by boskonyc »

This clown covertly recorded (spied on) an established engineer who was casually conversing in a well-known if niche and informal chat room. He then decided he was justified to publish the excerpts of the covertly recorded conversation as if they were journalistic quotes provided to a media outlet. This is the most pathetic kind of muckraking by a would-be engineer drawing attention to himself by attacking an established figure. Unwise, perhaps, for Digital Ocean to TOS him like this, but certainly within their rights as a service provider. As for the original poster, he may in turn feel violated by DO's TOS, but the violation of privacy he committed is without question much more severe.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#84

Post by macspoofing »

jasonlotito wrote: post #65
macspoofing wrote: post #36

Am I the only one who sees Digital Ocean as acting ethically here? This guy is a jerk. He harassed a guy, because the guy works at Google, into giving him his opinion about a semi-controversial topic in a private forum. Then he writes a blog hit-piece in which he explicitly identifies him and disparages him for the opinion he gave! I don't know if he has a legal right to do this, but you don't just do things like tha…

That's a small minded way to look at this. Consider for a moment that now Digital Ocean has just signaled that you can't reliably host anything on DO for more than just technical reasons. Post something someone doesn't like, despite it being true? It can be removed. Let that sink in, because your comment is calling out the OP for being a jerk. You are making claims, legal claims, such as "he harassed a guy" as if the…

>Post something someone doesn't like, despite it being true? It can be removed.

Which service would allow you to just post anything you like?

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#85

Post by jacques_chester »

imdsm wrote: post #79
jacques_chester wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All DigitalOcean asked him to do was to give them editorial control over his blog. That isn't a small thing to me. A nitpick. They didn't ask for editorial control; they asked for observance of the Terms of Service, with the option on their side to discontinue service. Nothing in the ToS gives DigitalOcean any right to editorial control and nothing in their communications says "give us control". It's a binary propo…

I disagree. It seems to me that they wanted editorial control via proxy. "You change this for me or I'll delete your droplet." The thing in this which really irks me is that the staff were neither co-operative nor reasonable. If you're a paying customer, the least they could do is put the complaint into a state of investigation whilst they looked into the claim. Instant ultimatum seems a bit steep. I use Digital Ocea…

I understand where you're coming from, but while the shape is similar, "editorial control" and "upholding a ToS" are essentially different things.

For example. Suppose instead that DigitalOcean staff wanted him to write about penguins. If they said "write more about flightless antarctic birds or we will pull the plug", they would be trying to exercise editorial control, because they'd be making positive assertions about the content of the site. And, because they had no previous agreement in place to give them editorial control, they could be rightly told to sit and spin.

But that is not the situation. They have a ToS which forbids certain kinds of content and they are within their rights to terminate service entirely if the terms aren't adhered to by the customer. What they can't do is directly edit, or expect to directly edit, or otherwise direct the content.

When I studied law I learnt that different things, even when they lead to identical outcomes, are different, and should be dealt with independently.

If they made a mistake, it was in trying to be friendly about it, which gave a misleading impression. Sometimes legally-worded requests are best.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#86

Post by josephlord »

jacques_chester wrote: post #70
josephlord wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All DigitalOcean asked him to do was to give them editorial control over his blog. That isn't a small thing to me. At a quick glance it looks like a public forum (which has a bearing on how I view the ethics of the situation although even if it was private I don't think DO should act). When you are asked a question about your employer in public you are speaking for them and if you say something dumb that your company…

> All DigitalOcean asked him to do was to give them editorial control over his blog. That isn't a small thing to me. A nitpick. They didn't ask for editorial control; they asked for observance of the Terms of Service, with the option on their side to discontinue service. Nothing in the ToS gives DigitalOcean any right to editorial control and nothing in their communications says "give us control". It's a binary propo…

"You can't publish it if we don't like it"; is editorial control. "Change this or we will take it down"; is editorial control.

They asked for a specific change: the removal of the name. That seems like editorial control to me. They took the view that anything embarrassing (even if not private) about someone who is not a public figure cannot be hosted on their servers. That is an editorial policy and they are asserting editorial control.

It isn't completely clear to me that he was breaching the terms. The closest part of the quoted terms is "harrass and embarrass". If it was an "or" then he would have breached them as an "and" I don't think he has unless there is further unrevealed harassment.

Regardless of whether it qualifies I would have expected the clause mostly to be used for serious harassment and/or posting nude images of people rather than accurately quoting statements that they have made recently.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#87

Post by dmdeller »

For the sake of comparison, it seems worth mentioning a hosting provider that takes an explicit stance in their policies against things like this happening, to the extent that they actually named their company around the idea: https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/help/abuse

Unfortunately, NFSN's technology stack is so far behind the times that it's hard to use them for much of anything these days. I'm not affiliated with them, just a long time customer.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#88

Post by Tloewald »

macspoofing wrote: post #75
josephlord wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All DigitalOcean asked him to do was to give them editorial control over his blog. That isn't a small thing to me. At a quick glance it looks like a public forum (which has a bearing on how I view the ethics of the situation although even if it was private I don't think DO should act). When you are asked a question about your employer in public you are speaking for them and if you say something dumb that your company…

>I don't see why you assume it wasn't "on the record". Because it's a nice thing to do when you're dealing with private citizens. We're talking ethics here, and the thing about ethics is that they can essentially be boiled down to "don't be an asshole". This blog post can seriously hurt someone who never asked for it and doesn't deserve it. Why not be a little bit fair? If you're not sure if it's "off the record", as…

There are at least two assholes involved in this story. If there were only one there would be no story.

I think exposing what people say in the open (not private but also not quite public) isn't exactly something someone who works at google should be complaining about. If "stuff you do online can come back to haunt you" shocks you then you probably shouldn't be working at google (except perhaps as a contractor with no benefits, right?)

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#89

Post by chillingeffect »

jasonlotito wrote: post #65
macspoofing wrote: post #36

Am I the only one who sees Digital Ocean as acting ethically here? This guy is a jerk. He harassed a guy, because the guy works at Google, into giving him his opinion about a semi-controversial topic in a private forum. Then he writes a blog hit-piece in which he explicitly identifies him and disparages him for the opinion he gave! I don't know if he has a legal right to do this, but you don't just do things like tha…

That's a small minded way to look at this. Consider for a moment that now Digital Ocean has just signaled that you can't reliably host anything on DO for more than just technical reasons. Post something someone doesn't like, despite it being true? It can be removed. Let that sink in, because your comment is calling out the OP for being a jerk. You are making claims, legal claims, such as "he harassed a guy" as if the…

Yup, after hearing good things about DO on here lately, I was hoping to give them a try.

This kind of fracas, though - in which ONE person is able to fabricate a story and exercise tyrannical control via proxy - dissuades me heavily from that. Maybe if I were to use DO, one of my competitors could trump up some charges and persuade them to drop my "droplet"? Do I want to deal with that possibility?

Hell, I feel nervous just posting this here, now! Who knows what they'll do to me in the future based on this text! (/me copies this post, logs out, creates new user id.)

This leads me to think that in terms of "digital society," we are still behind Hannurabi's Law and even Sharia Law. We are in the Wild West and power in the form of oligarchy is the rule. I hope more of us geeks read up on their philosophy. [1]

[1]http://www.philclassics.libsyn.com/

Welcome to the bottom of the pile, DO. It could have been magic.

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