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Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

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Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#31

Post by Joeboy »

josephlord wrote: post #16

I'm not sure how valid this view is but I feel that the lower level (as in closer to infrastructure) the service provided the higher level the threshold for editorial interference should be. Against this feeling DO massively overstepped the mark here and have massively put me off using them. I'm not saying that they should never have control; at least spamming, illegal content and DOS attacks need to be dealt with bu…

> the lower level (as in closer to infrastructure) the service provided the higher level the threshold for editorial interference should be

That was my instinct too, but I see no real reason why we should expect that to be the case. We've grown up with the idea that servers are generally managed by reasonably "legit" entities. Now that it's trivial to sign up for a VPS, we probably have to expect providers to pay more attention to what goes on on their machines. This is thought provoking, for me anyway.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#32

Post by danpalmer »

tehwalrus wrote: post #28
danpalmer wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libel implies it's not true. If it is true then it is legal (as far as I am aware). The original blog post strikes me as possibly slightly biased, but probably true, therefore not libellous.

Indeed; political campaigning 101 (at least here in the UK) is that libel must both: * contain false statements AND * be designed to damage reputation. If only the latter, then it's not libel. However, if it's the former as well, then both the author and the publisher/printer can be sued, so DO in this case are protecting their own legal status by removing libelous material. Saying you don't like someone online, quot…

Exactly. If it was libellous, then DO do need to protect themselves. However I felt that blog post was genuine, on first impression of reading it, and I think there was enough evidence that it may actually be true that DO should not have been anywhere near as quick to take it down, perhaps they should have investigated it more.

That is, if the reason for taking it down was entirely to protect themselves legally. From what I've read, it's hinted that this might not be to protect themselves, but might be more down to them just wanting it gone.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#33

Post by 7952 »

Argorak wrote: post #8
petercooper wrote: post #6

The real issue here is whether Digital Ocean should be enforcing a term in their ToS to prevent users from using their network in various socially negative ways. As a liberal-ish European, I think they should, but I appreciate this stance doesn't necessarily play well in the US. Nonetheless, taking quotes from an informal chat room and turning them into a biased, borderline libelous blog post isn't cool. It's immater…

Thats interesting. As a liberalish European, I think DigitalOcean shouldn't be allowed to police their content, just as ISPs shouldn't be allowed to block websites at their whim. Thats clearly in the realm of courts and lawyers. DigitalOcean can cancel the contract once others found the blog post to be defamatory.

"Shouldn't be allowed" is a bit strong. It is not unreasonable to remove questionable content when you are made aware of it; if only to protect the business from threat of legal action. It becomes policing when a website has to actively check up on its customers which places an unfair burden.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#34

Post by danso »

danpalmer wrote: post #25
petercooper wrote: post #6

The real issue here is whether Digital Ocean should be enforcing a term in their ToS to prevent users from using their network in various socially negative ways. As a liberal-ish European, I think they should, but I appreciate this stance doesn't necessarily play well in the US. Nonetheless, taking quotes from an informal chat room and turning them into a biased, borderline libelous blog post isn't cool. It's immater…

Libel implies it's not true. If it is true then it is legal (as far as I am aware). The original blog post strikes me as possibly slightly biased, but probably true, therefore not libellous.

In the U.S., there is the concept of "false light", which is similar to defamation, except that the plaintiff can claim damages even if the implication is true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_light

A classic case (though for some reason, I haven't been able to find it through Googling), according to my law professor, involved Time LIFE Magazine (or perhaps one of its peers), which had a photograph of a cowboy, and the silhouette, perhaps it was the back of his saddle, appeared to imply that the man was exposing his member.

The photo was unaltered and thus, true, but the cowboy was able to claim damages. Again, I'm citing from memory but haven't been able to find the case via web searches (it's likely to have happened decades ago, though).

Since the U.S. is more permissive on the issue of libel than most countries, I imagine the concept of "false light", or something similar to it, exists in most countries.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#35

Post by viraptor »

DanBlake wrote: post #18

FWIW, all I ever read about on HN is how DO is constantly a disaster. Why you would choose to host there is beyond me. Just move your blog- It takes all of a few hours.

It's very cheap and very fast - ideal for testing your deployment scripts. I would never run a live service from there however. (you can't even do realistic HA on their service without involving some third-party for being the front-end)

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#36

Post by macspoofing »

Am I the only one who sees Digital Ocean as acting ethically here?

This guy is a jerk. He harassed a guy, because the guy works at Google, into giving him his opinion about a semi-controversial topic in a private forum. Then he writes a blog hit-piece in which he explicitly identifies him and disparages him for the opinion he gave! I don't know if he has a legal right to do this, but you don't just do things like that. This Googler is not a spokesperson for the company. He's not in a public forum. He's just some guy who works at Google as a developer, who gave you his opinion "off the record", and you do something like that!? He could lose his job over this if somebody at Google PR overreacts. He may have a family, a mortgage, car payments, school debts, and without any reason, you decided to just screw him over. Don't do things like that!!!! Be nice!

All DigitalOcean asked him to do is to anonymize references to this Googler. This is the ethical move because this jerk didn't get the Googler's permission to have him "on the record". Depending on your jurisdiction, you are in a legal grey area anyway.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#37

Post by voidr »

macspoofing wrote: post #36

Am I the only one who sees Digital Ocean as acting ethically here? This guy is a jerk. He harassed a guy, because the guy works at Google, into giving him his opinion about a semi-controversial topic in a private forum. Then he writes a blog hit-piece in which he explicitly identifies him and disparages him for the opinion he gave! I don't know if he has a legal right to do this, but you don't just do things like tha…

It doesn't matter if they were ethical or not, what they did is not right. They are not law enforcement. If everybody would be allowed to enforce the law, then I would be free to shoot you in the head just because you made a negative comment about my cat, because I feel that's ethical.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#38

Post by perlpimp »

voidr wrote: post #37
macspoofing wrote: post #36

Am I the only one who sees Digital Ocean as acting ethically here? This guy is a jerk. He harassed a guy, because the guy works at Google, into giving him his opinion about a semi-controversial topic in a private forum. Then he writes a blog hit-piece in which he explicitly identifies him and disparages him for the opinion he gave! I don't know if he has a legal right to do this, but you don't just do things like tha…

It doesn't matter if they were ethical or not, what they did is not right. They are not law enforcement. If everybody would be allowed to enforce the law, then I would be free to shoot you in the head just because you made a negative comment about my cat, because I feel that's ethical.

I totally concur if a group of people decides to go all out in asshattery, the worst thing is for business is to participate - they become partial which is never good when you start taking sides in this sort of thing.

If you get court order to take a page down do that - probably because it is illegal. IMO the more drama the more your business is visible. For one I heard very good things about Digital Ocean - however I am very libertian minded and I think whatever people go going between themselves - they should figure it out. If things turn criminal let police deal with it.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#39

Post by untothebreach »

voidr wrote: post #37
macspoofing wrote: post #36

Am I the only one who sees Digital Ocean as acting ethically here? This guy is a jerk. He harassed a guy, because the guy works at Google, into giving him his opinion about a semi-controversial topic in a private forum. Then he writes a blog hit-piece in which he explicitly identifies him and disparages him for the opinion he gave! I don't know if he has a legal right to do this, but you don't just do things like tha…

It doesn't matter if they were ethical or not, what they did is not right. They are not law enforcement. If everybody would be allowed to enforce the law, then I would be free to shoot you in the head just because you made a negative comment about my cat, because I feel that's ethical.

What 'law' are they enforcing here? They are enforcing their own TOS, which is perfectly within their right. I'm not saying this is the right thing for them to do, but he is using their service, so they have a right to enforce their TOS. He is perfectly able to move his blog post, unedited, to another VPS provider if he does not like what they are asking him to do.

Re: Digital Ocean said it would shut down my blog if I didn’t edit a blog post.

#40

Post by untothebreach »

voidr wrote: post #20
rsynnott wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So Digital Ocean could freely decide if a content is harassing without any legal court order or something? Their TOS presumably allow this, as do the TOSes of most hosts, but this seems like a pretty bizarre use of discretionary terms, and would definitely put a lot of people off using it for anything much.

It's perfectly fine for a TOS to allow a service provider to comply with the law. The problem is when they have their own highly ambiguous laws and lack a proper system to resolve violations.

I don't think what they are doing is the right thing to do, but they are perfectly within their right to enforce their TOS. If a person does not like that, they should use a different VPS provider.
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