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Fired? Speak No Evil

nytimes.com

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Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#51

Post by silverbax88 »

zastrowm wrote: post #48
silverbax88 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies could save themselves a lot of pretense with exit interviews and just assume the following: If a good person leaves your company, it is because of one or more of the following: 1. You can't (or won't) pay them as much as someone else. 2. They aren't happy in the culture of your company. 3. They aren't happy with the type of work they are doing. 4. They don't see a bright future with your company - either fo…

That seems to be a lot of possible reasons. So once they see a good person leaving, what should they do to stem the flow? Having a list of nine possible reasons is nice, but if they don't know which one is the right one, it can make it very difficult to know what to change in response.

You should attempt to change all of the ones you can control. It's not simple. Which is why most companies only pretend to care.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#52

Post by silverbax88 »

dasil003 wrote: post #40
silverbax88 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies could save themselves a lot of pretense with exit interviews and just assume the following: If a good person leaves your company, it is because of one or more of the following: 1. You can't (or won't) pay them as much as someone else. 2. They aren't happy in the culture of your company. 3. They aren't happy with the type of work they are doing. 4. They don't see a bright future with your company - either fo…

So rather than ask the person like a grownup they should wildly speculate in order to make everyone less uncomfortable? I mean you have a list of 9 reasons off the top of your head and it's just the tip of the iceberg.

Name another reason that doesn't fall under those nine. I'm honestly not trying to argue, just asking. There aren't really that many reasons why people leave. People leave because they aren't happy or aren't getting paid enough or they have a personal situation that dictates it. There are really just 3 reasons but I elaborated because I expected people to start chiming in with all of the reasons I missed.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#53

Post by ceejayoz »

silverbax88 wrote: post #50
silverbax88 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, legally, they cannot say anything more than "He worked here from X to Y, that's all we can say". You don't need any agreement from them.

I should have stated that it depends on the state. Some states may not have these stipulations.

Care to point one out that does?

California, typically one of the hardest on employers, appears to have explicit protection for bad references made based on evidence and without malice. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/california-reference-...

New York's another high-regulation state, and while there's no explicit protection against defamation lawsuits, it's certainly not illegal to invite one via a shitty reference. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/reference-laws-new-yo...

I can't imagine a "no references" law would survive First Amendment muster in the US, regardless of attempted state legislation.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#54

Post by clarky07 »

adricnet wrote: post #10
300bps wrote: post #5

If I don’t agree to this nondisparagement clause, I will not receive my severance — in this case, the equivalent of two weeks of pay. For two weeks pay, I would not agree to anything. For two years pay, I would consider it. I had no idea that professionals were given such ridiculous offers and expected to sign off on them. At my last job, I was guaranteed 1 year of severance in the event of losing my job. Fortunately…

Let me suggest with all respect and much jealousy that your situation may not be common across employeers or jurisdictions. And that many people may not have the finances or flexibility to decline two weeks pay, unless they already have another job (or lots of work). What you are discussing as an expected normal sounds like some utopian fantasy from here in Georgia, USA, an "at-will" hiring and firing state.

>And that many people may not have the finances or flexibility to decline two weeks pay

2 weeks is a ridiculous severance package. If someone is desperate for 2 weeks pay, they should really work on saving up an emergency fund. It's unlikely the 2 weeks really makes a huge difference. Either they get a job immediately, or it takes awhile. If they get a job, it doesn't matter. If they don't, they are still screwed in a very short time frame.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#55

Post by neohaven »

danielweber wrote: post #35

And I was soon informed that the president wished to assure me that there is nothing unusual about such clauses Whoop whoop whoop! This sets off giant alarm bells in my head. It might be totally normal. That doesn't mean you should sign it. It's also an older-than-dirt salesman tactic to say that something you just made up is "totally common." Of course, the company can attach whatever clauses it wants to a separatio…

Depending on where you are, "severance", or the 2-week pay after you have been told you do not have a job anymore, may or may not be a worker's right.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#56

Post by LargeWu »

chris_wot wrote: post #47

Two things wrong here: 1. Isn't this against the U.S. Constitutional right to free speech? 2. I'd say that if you had this signed then it would be under duress. Not sure how this can be enforceable!

The Constitution establishes the limits of the government's powers only. It does not apply to contractual agreements between private parties.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#57

Post by qwerta »

What is "termination agreement"? You were fired with written or verbal notice. Severance and other stuff should be arranged in original contract you signed when hired.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#58

Post by adricnet »

300bps wrote: post #26
adricnet wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me suggest with all respect and much jealousy that your situation may not be common across employeers or jurisdictions. And that many people may not have the finances or flexibility to decline two weeks pay, unless they already have another job (or lots of work). What you are discussing as an expected normal sounds like some utopian fantasy from here in Georgia, USA, an "at-will" hiring and firing state.

Let me suggest with all respect and much jealousy that your situation may not be common across employeers or jurisdictions I have no college degree, work in the suburbs of a second-tier Northeastern US city but I have 20 years experience in IT. And that many people may not have the finances or flexibility to decline two weeks pay I respectfully submit that saving for an emergency fund might be their top priority whil…

Agree entirely on Emergency Fund, though I'm not doing so well on the front myself. Easy credit has many of us confused on that front and it's a painful lesson.

And well, not everyone on HN (or Earth) is a fabulous developer, more's the pity :D Plenty of IT positions are cog-like, in the eyes of management and leadership, and people have to fight to get entry-level helpdesk type jobs around here.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#59

Post by ProAm »

chris_wot wrote: post #47

Two things wrong here: 1. Isn't this against the U.S. Constitutional right to free speech? 2. I'd say that if you had this signed then it would be under duress. Not sure how this can be enforceable!

1) No, this is not against the 1st amendment. You do not have free speech at work, and before he signs this he is still employed.

2) He would not have signed it under duress because he does not have to sign it. It could be argued, but he'd probably lose. I wouldn't think either party would want to go to court over 2 weeks pay either way.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#60

Post by ojbyrne »

crusso wrote: post #29
LanceH wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two weeks severance isn't traditionally "extra pay". It's generally a professional courtesy that they are now withholding until the no-longer-employee agrees to an everlasting requirement. The flip side: Offer two weeks notice, but only if they agree to speak of you on your terms afterward. No company signs that. They would be liable for anything anyone in the company ever said about you, forever. It's also exception…

It's also "professional courtesy" to not trash people... but there you have it, so what would you be giving up if everyone is being "professional". You can forego the two weeks severance if it isn't worth it and you really want to trash them. Having been both on the employee and the employer side of things, as an employer it really sucks to do something nice that you don't have to like give someone a severance packag…

There's a difference between "not trashing people" and not saying anything under threat of lawsuit. Pretty well anything can be interpreted as disparaging. You could say something as simple as "they fired me, I don't think it was fair." and find yourself liable.
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