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I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

theguardian.com

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Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#351

Post by melling »

fit2rule wrote: post #328
melling wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans think we already spend too much on foreign aid. So, politically what you are proposing isn't going to work. Perhaps a privately funded solution. The "Three Cups of Tea" author was doing some of this but it turned out he wasn't completely honest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Cups_of_Tea

>>Most Americans think we already spend too much on foreign aid. I've yet to meet an American who thinks the Trillion dollar military-industrial debt that they owe has been worth it. At all.

My statement was in response to someone who thought we should give more money in foreign aid, which I would be in favor.

Your statement is simply a complaint that really has no relevance. Are you in favor of giving more in foreign aid, to help build schools, etc?

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#352

Post by dchichkov »

anderspetersson wrote: post #167

All this criticism against drones. Drones are awesome. I've worked on the ground in Afghanistan on a Mechanized Infantry Platoon. There's nothing more calming than hearing the buzz from a drone keeping an eye on the terrain from above and reporting to the TACP while you're on the ground. We where saved multiple times from running into ambushes and IEDs thanks to drones. Sure, Apache's could do the job as-well, but wh…

Best comment in the thread. So we should concentrate on development of 'guardian' and 'intelligence' drones, and leave the offense part to the soldiers on the ground, right?

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#353

Post by mark_l_watson »

jmccree wrote: post #336
mark_l_watson wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that the situation is worse now than in the past.

How so? Most americans have unfiltered access to the internet where they can get far more information than the old days of having 1 or 2 local newspapers and 3 TV broadcast networks.

I agree that some people, us included, are saavy enough to read news sources from around the world and make reasonably informed decisions based on a variety of sources.

However, the US corporate news is largely a propaganda machine and the vast majority of US citizens get their news in propaganda form.

Don't believe that? Do an experiment: identify a few news stories on Fox News, MSNBC, etc. and then spend some some on Google News reading coverage for these stories from a variety of other countries. I do this a few times a month for news that I am interested in, and it is an eye opening experience.

The authors of "Dollarocracy: How the Money and Media Election Complex is Destroying America" spoke at Google last fall when I was consulting there. They roast local and national news as being very biased and not covering things that people really should know.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#354

Post by justin66 »

rgbrenner wrote: post #115
sleepyK wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But unfortunately, it always is. American life, and American citizenship is more precious than any other life. I know it's not the same issue, but throughout the whole NSA snooping revelations, Americans have only been concerned by the legality of spying on their own citizens. All of us foreigners are fair game. This is similar. The value of an American life is much more than that of a foreigner's life.

Americans should be more concerned about the NSA spying on US citizens than on foreigners. Here's why: When the US government decides a US citizen's communication patterns makes him a terrorist, the US government is free to knock down their door in the middle of the night and whisk them off to Guantanamo, and NO ONE except the US government can do anything to stop them. When the US government decides a foreigner is a…

> The difference between the NSA spying on an American and a foreigner is that only the foreigner has a government that can protect them from the US government.

Pakistan is a nuclear power and even they don't have a government that can protect its people from the US government.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#355

Post by mcintyre1994 »

dba7dba wrote: post #326
lemmsjid wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try to put myself in the shoes of the potential drone targets. I live in Los Angeles, which seems to be the official city of the police helicopter (always followed closely by the news helicopter, because the possibility of violence is entertainment). Over the years it's gotten to the point where multiple times a week they're buzzing around the neighborhood, stabbing the backyard with their searchlights. I've never…

>> When due process is undermined, the population becomes more alienated from the government, and more individuals become radicalized, and more terrorism happens. How many lives of soldiers would be risked and how much money would be spent for operations to 'capture' the terrorists in foreign nations? And will nations like Pakistan allow military (or law enforcement) operations on their soil by foreign govts to captu…

Could you not just as easily argue that drone operations take place there because they're powerless against them? Perhaps it's also their inability to protect their population adequately that America take advantage of.

In my opinion the real issue here is that innocent civilians are getting killed in a nation America have no official presence in, and certainly no state of war with and where there is no chance of recourse. Are civilians in failed or almost failed (whatever that really means) nations fair game? Is there any precedent for killing civilians without either declaring war or at least putting a presence on the ground?

Actually, there probably is - and it's probably best referred to as terrorism.

Anyway, I agree that arguing here isn't going to change anything - but I disagree that these people are fair game just because of where they are and what goes on there. I don't think it's venturing far to say some are justified in hating America, that doesn't justify terrorism.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#356

Post by jneen »

haberman wrote: post #255
avenger123 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My original response was much more involved but I curtailed it to this. I believe I replied pretty much in the same manner as jusbin1369. My hope is that for people that look at comments only they will actually read the article instead of reading jusbin1369's comment and skipping it because they wouldn't want to be "manipulated" or consider the article another "propaganda" piece. I also get very wary of questioning t…

Your entire comment was sarcasm. Sarcasm is not a constructive or compelling way of making an argument.

Sarcasm is a brilliant tool to use against derailing.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#357

Post by votingprawn »

pearjuice wrote: post #332

What stuns me the most about drones is how unfair they are. The targets are mostly the Middle-East and they have absolutely no chance to take them down. And then they wonder why they attack innocent Americans working in an embasy. How are you supposed to fight something you cannot see? You don't, so you attack something of the enemy, no matter what, because it is the last option to hurt him.

Couldn't the same argument be made against any other attack aircraft?

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#358

Post by movingahead »

dba7dba wrote: post #326
lemmsjid wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try to put myself in the shoes of the potential drone targets. I live in Los Angeles, which seems to be the official city of the police helicopter (always followed closely by the news helicopter, because the possibility of violence is entertainment). Over the years it's gotten to the point where multiple times a week they're buzzing around the neighborhood, stabbing the backyard with their searchlights. I've never…

>> When due process is undermined, the population becomes more alienated from the government, and more individuals become radicalized, and more terrorism happens. How many lives of soldiers would be risked and how much money would be spent for operations to 'capture' the terrorists in foreign nations? And will nations like Pakistan allow military (or law enforcement) operations on their soil by foreign govts to captu…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Headley

A terrorist part of the 26/11 attacks on Bombay who was an informant for US DEA.

Which NGO should I contribute to for the DEA to realise that human life has value beyond the territorial borders of United States? White Men's burden is back.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#359

Post by TruthElixirX »

classicsnoot wrote: post #338
TruthElixirX wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He isn't a sack of shit for having an opposing view point. He is a sack of shit for this middle ground all sides have a valid point and the truth is somewhere in the middle bullshit.

I personally think the middle path is always the place to begin seeking the truth. I can tell you are angry (i have a 6th sense with these things). I am angry too. I am so angry at what my country does, and how ignorant the majority of us are about it. I have no salve. I have no solution. War's hellish qualities serve as entertainment fodder instead of a lesson. I am angry too, but i respect the place we are and, res…

Not angry, just an internet tough guy. I do not respect the place "we" are at and I would not claim the U.S. as my country.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#360

Post by malandrew »

abalone wrote: post #319
jusben1369 wrote: post #112

We need to make sure we're not being manipulated. Here the Guardian is just serving up an emotional, unsubstantiated, one sided view of this discussion. I'm not sure how this is different to much of the chest beating I'd see on Fox News. I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Just that if we pride ourselves on being educated and critical thinkers that we apply that to all sources of data we read. We all kno…

It's a commentary. Commentaries are supposed to be one-sided. The Guardian commentary appeals to emotion while making it clear where its sympathies lie. That is perfectly acceptable and proper for a commentary. It's also quite relevant to the debate to bring emotion into it. You hinted at it when you asked whether "we're carrying out a lot more sorties than we did prior," but you only mentioned the military cost of i…

Furthermore, the main point of the commentary is that we, the people supporting the politicians sanctioning these drone policies, should be asking questions. The appeal may be emotional, but demanding more transparency so that that we can make informed decisions on whether to support these programs is not just reasonable, but the right thing to do.
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