Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 491 posts

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#261

Post by curiousDog »

TruthElixirX wrote: post #254
jusben1369 wrote: post #112

We need to make sure we're not being manipulated. Here the Guardian is just serving up an emotional, unsubstantiated, one sided view of this discussion. I'm not sure how this is different to much of the chest beating I'd see on Fox News. I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Just that if we pride ourselves on being educated and critical thinkers that we apply that to all sources of data we read. We all kno…

You're a sack of shit: >I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Congrats on being a mediocre person who doesn't believe in anything or have any opinions. This is the most offensive thing I think, even more than me disagreeing with you. Just picking middle of the road bland boring contrariness. >We all know war is hell. Apparently "we" don't because people continue to wage war. >We know using weapons to attac…

Thank you for this. OP seems to be in denial of the fact that there is no "War". Whatever is going on is just to keep the massive industrial military complex running funded by tax payers. Fighting against Hitler was war. Running after a bunch of helpless people in the desert to test latest weapons and keep the bottom 10% of the population employed is just evil.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#262

Post by classicsnoot »

jaekwon wrote: post #233
classicsnoot wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one ever wants to portray death as a technical aberration because it is an icky feeling. Also, people love to be self righteous and condescending because it adds millimetres to their imaginary pedestal. Just to rile them up more, which guy campaigning for president in 2008 had killed more Americans by hand, McCain or Obama? The answer is shocking, but not unbelievable. My grandfather was a naval aviator. He told m…

Surely you're intelligent enough to see the distinction between Barber surgeons, grave robbers, and killing machines. There's a whole world of applications for AI and machinery that we could be pooling our resources into, but instead we're funding a continuing war on "terror" abroad. There's no reason why the war is necessary, no reason why technological progress would be made faster in the art of killing vs anything…

Your use of "us" is adorable. There have always been more of "you". Who else would make up the wave assaults, mass labour pools, and factory employees?

War may not be necessary from an emotional standpoint, but from a technological standpoint it is the only game in town. The recent developments in peaceful IT are unique in human history, and they themselves are predicated on war technology and research. In fact, i challenge you to name one area of technology that is not based on war research and military development. I don't think you can name a single device that is not built off of something war related. I have a special place in my heart for the myth of pure science and research. I also believe it could become a reality. I posted ITT about how it might be possible to counter the militarization of our air. I think a few successive generations of scientists who are not affiliated with war making could bring about peaceful advancement, but as it stands now, technology absolutely requires mistrustful nations, reckless generals, and politely amoral science and tech workers.

All of that AI and "machinery" has a military background. They control the purse, so they dictate the purpose.

Surely you are canny enough to know that petty appeals to my "intelligence" only serve to make you seem desperate to be right. All 3 of those things, hell all things, are neither good nor bad. They are merely titles given based on context. Context is everything. A civilian sees a RPV as a killing machine. A EOD tech sees a drone as an insurance policy. A president sees a Predator as a solution. I see a way for normal people to enhance their effect in shaping their world. All of us see the same toy, but we all have a different use for it. Surely you are intelligent enough to understand that context can bring new light to any topic or situation...

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#263

Post by [deleted] »

jusben1369 wrote: post #112

We need to make sure we're not being manipulated. Here the Guardian is just serving up an emotional, unsubstantiated, one sided view of this discussion. I'm not sure how this is different to much of the chest beating I'd see on Fox News. I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Just that if we pride ourselves on being educated and critical thinkers that we apply that to all sources of data we read. We all kno…

[deleted]

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#264

Post by fit2rule »

cmdkeen wrote: post #117
fit2rule wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've identified the problem - deonotology - but not the solution. Anyone who kills for a living, is violating the most basic rules of human life, that have been taught us since we rose from this Earth: life is sacred. You can't educate a dead man.

"the most basic rules of human life, that have been taught us since we rose from this Earth" That is just fundamentally untrue. The notion that all life is sacred and killing for a living is wrong is a very, very modern notion. Members of the military kill because it needs to happen. They would rather be members of a professional, trained force that means the number of total dead is minimised to the greatest extent p…

>The notion that all life is sacred and killing for a living is wrong is a very, very modern notion.

Since time began, humans have been trying to stop it. So I don't think you're thinking this through ..

>Members of the military kill because it needs to happen.

Members of the military kill because they are ordered to do so, and no longer have the ability to express their own inherent free will. Nowhere in the history of war has it ever been true that 'to kill a little now means not killing more later' - if it were, the killing would have stopped.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#265

Post by ris »

mikeash wrote: post #228
ris wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably did up until the point when both sides were armed with them. But the difference with Napalms, B52s and drone strikes is the enemy they were used against were never likely to be able to obtain similar weapons and thus threaten their opponents to a similar extent. I'm not particularly sure about the concept of "cowardice" here, I just had to point out this logical flaw.

On what timescale does "never" apply? Large technological gaps in weapons between different people carrying out a fight aren't that uncommon, after all. A couple hundred years later and you can hardly tell the difference.

> On what timescale does "never" apply?

Non-temporal colloquial "never". "Never in their wildest dreams" never.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#266

Post by bicx »

TruthElixirX wrote: post #254
jusben1369 wrote: post #112

We need to make sure we're not being manipulated. Here the Guardian is just serving up an emotional, unsubstantiated, one sided view of this discussion. I'm not sure how this is different to much of the chest beating I'd see on Fox News. I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Just that if we pride ourselves on being educated and critical thinkers that we apply that to all sources of data we read. We all kno…

You're a sack of shit: >I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Congrats on being a mediocre person who doesn't believe in anything or have any opinions. This is the most offensive thing I think, even more than me disagreeing with you. Just picking middle of the road bland boring contrariness. >We all know war is hell. Apparently "we" don't because people continue to wage war. >We know using weapons to attac…

> No, making it into a game complete with an Xbox controller abstracts the realness from it.

False. This is exactly what the article was addressing: unreported suicides and clinically depressed drone pilots. It definitely doesn't feel like a video game to those people.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#267

Post by TruthElixirX »

jboydyhacker wrote: post #260
TruthElixirX wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a sack of shit: >I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Congrats on being a mediocre person who doesn't believe in anything or have any opinions. This is the most offensive thing I think, even more than me disagreeing with you. Just picking middle of the road bland boring contrariness. >We all know war is hell. Apparently "we" don't because people continue to wage war. >We know using weapons to attac…

Pointing out an opposing view, or the downside of the alternative to drones (boots on the ground) does not make the author a sack of shit. War will be around until humans work harder to understand each others perspectives and evolve socially as quickly as we have with technology. You can help us all to that end by not being name calling anonymously on the internet.

He isn't a sack of shit for having an opposing view point. He is a sack of shit for this middle ground all sides have a valid point and the truth is somewhere in the middle bullshit.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#268

Post by mark_l_watson »

bicx wrote: post #259
mark_l_watson wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are referring to what I think was called Operation High Tower in the Vietnam War, which in retrospect was a low point in my country's actions. You have the benefit of hindsight so I find it disturbing that you sound OK with the napalming and massive high altitude bombing of mostly civilian populations.

I didn't at all get the impression he was okay with the napalm bombings

I may have misunderstood him, in which case, apologies.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#269

Post by pygy_ »

neals wrote: post #107
pygy_ wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me you were being sarcastic. Please.

I am being sarcastic, right now. Please tell me you live in a world of grown-ups where progress and sacrifice go hand in hand.

In reply to your edit to the parent post: robots won't take over for us. If they are ever in such a position of power, they'll get rid of us.

I'm not exactly looking forwards to it.

Among other things, human history is the combined evolution of sociological and technological progress.

Societal progress has peaked a while ago.

Technology has been riding the curiosity and mental ability of the most brilliant among us, and is currently busy building its next vehicle.

The tragedy of the commons means that it will be very, very difficult to impede that trend, assuming it is possible at all.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#270

Post by mark_l_watson »

TruthElixirX wrote: post #256
mark_l_watson wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but to be a little more precise: throughout history the rich/elites have lied to civilian populations so they would go along with money making war activities. What is sad now in the USA is that there are very few politicians who speak the truth and very few news outlets that don't just cooperate in the propaganda.

>What is sad now in the USA is that there are very few politicians who speak the truth and very few news outlets that don't just cooperate in the propaganda. There never were any. Name this mystical time when he U.S. government was some benevolent force for good and not constantly lying to the civilian population to push them to unwanted wars.

I feel that the situation is worse now than in the past.
Post reply on HN