I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on • Hacker News Board

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#271

Post by jessaustin » Sun, Dec 29, 2013, 8:27 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #250

ItendToDisagree wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would intervening in Rawanda have saved lives exactly? Go in and arm the Tutsi's? Start killing Hutus? It is probable that intervention would have caused more casualties (including to US forces). Kosovo is also disputed even in terms of actual casualties, let alone projected casualties, and is probably not a good case for intervention. I fully agree there is not a good answer either way (syria included)... Just p…

How would intervening in Rawanda have saved lives exactly? Go in and arm the Tutsi's? A group of armed Tutsi's is ultimately what ended the Rwandan genocide. So yes, that likely would have worked well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide#Rwandan_Patrio...

If you believe the judicious provision of weapons is a worthwhile humanitarian endeavor, then by all means create an NGO dedicated to the task. I can certainly envision donating to such a charity. Please don't involve the USA military-industrial complex in such a Faustian manner.

Also it isn't so convincing to link to a wiki section that supposedly proves your point about reducing bloodshed, while the very next section on the page describes 5 million people killed in the same area in the following decade.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#272

Post by TruthElixirX » Sun, Dec 29, 2013, 8:28 PM UTC

bicx wrote: post #266

TruthElixirX wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a sack of shit: >I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Congrats on being a mediocre person who doesn't believe in anything or have any opinions. This is the most offensive thing I think, even more than me disagreeing with you. Just picking middle of the road bland boring contrariness. >We all know war is hell. Apparently "we" don't because people continue to wage war. >We know using weapons to attac…

> No, making it into a game complete with an Xbox controller abstracts the realness from it. False. This is exactly what the article was addressing: unreported suicides and clinically depressed drone pilots. It definitely doesn't feel like a video game to those people.

Maybe not the people piloting, but the people ordering them to. It makes it a lot more trivial for everyone involved than actually hopping in a jet and blowing up some weddings that way.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#273

Post by njharman » Sun, Dec 29, 2013, 8:29 PM UTC

This topic can be summed up as war is hell. It is brutal, bloody and evil. UAVs, nor anything else alters this.

Modern democracies know this well and try to hide the horrors of war from their citizens. To have the freedom to wage war for as long as possible (or as long as needed) before public outrage forces them to stop.

Citizens are at fault for not knowing history and not paying attention.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#274

Post by alexeisadeski3 » Sun, Dec 29, 2013, 8:30 PM UTC

TruthElixirX wrote: post #267

jboydyhacker wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointing out an opposing view, or the downside of the alternative to drones (boots on the ground) does not make the author a sack of shit. War will be around until humans work harder to understand each others perspectives and evolve socially as quickly as we have with technology. You can help us all to that end by not being name calling anonymously on the internet.

He isn't a sack of shit for having an opposing view point. He is a sack of shit for this middle ground all sides have a valid point and the truth is somewhere in the middle bullshit.

He actually doesn't take the middle ground. He's avoiding the drone vs anti-drone argument to make a perfectly valid and legitimate point about the Guardian article.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#275

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Dec 29, 2013, 8:31 PM UTC

TruthElixirX wrote: post #254

jusben1369 wrote: post #112

We need to make sure we're not being manipulated. Here the Guardian is just serving up an emotional, unsubstantiated, one sided view of this discussion. I'm not sure how this is different to much of the chest beating I'd see on Fox News. I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Just that if we pride ourselves on being educated and critical thinkers that we apply that to all sources of data we read. We all kno…

You're a sack of shit: >I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Congrats on being a mediocre person who doesn't believe in anything or have any opinions. This is the most offensive thing I think, even more than me disagreeing with you. Just picking middle of the road bland boring contrariness. >We all know war is hell. Apparently "we" don't because people continue to wage war. >We know using weapons to attac…

[deleted]

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#276

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Dec 29, 2013, 8:31 PM UTC

jusben1369 wrote: post #112

We need to make sure we're not being manipulated. Here the Guardian is just serving up an emotional, unsubstantiated, one sided view of this discussion. I'm not sure how this is different to much of the chest beating I'd see on Fox News. I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Just that if we pride ourselves on being educated and critical thinkers that we apply that to all sources of data we read. We all kno…

[deleted]

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#277

Post by sentenza » Sun, Dec 29, 2013, 8:32 PM UTC

jboydyhacker wrote: post #260

TruthElixirX wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a sack of shit: >I'm not here to argue for or against the drones. Congrats on being a mediocre person who doesn't believe in anything or have any opinions. This is the most offensive thing I think, even more than me disagreeing with you. Just picking middle of the road bland boring contrariness. >We all know war is hell. Apparently "we" don't because people continue to wage war. >We know using weapons to attac…

Pointing out an opposing view, or the downside of the alternative to drones (boots on the ground) does not make the author a sack of shit. War will be around until humans work harder to understand each others perspectives and evolve socially as quickly as we have with technology. You can help us all to that end by not being name calling anonymously on the internet.

I'm not sure the expletive was warranted, this being HN and all, but the post he referred to did start with an ad hominem by implying that a personal account of how drone operators have the same emotions as everybody else was manipulative.

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#278

Post by alexeisadeski3 » Sun, Dec 29, 2013, 8:34 PM UTC

TruthElixirX wrote: post #272

bicx wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, making it into a game complete with an Xbox controller abstracts the realness from it. False. This is exactly what the article was addressing: unreported suicides and clinically depressed drone pilots. It definitely doesn't feel like a video game to those people.

Maybe not the people piloting, but the people ordering them to. It makes it a lot more trivial for everyone involved than actually hopping in a jet and blowing up some weddings that way.

Why would you think that?

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#279

Post by ItendToDisagree » Sun, Dec 29, 2013, 8:36 PM UTC

njharman wrote: post #273

This topic can be summed up as war is hell. It is brutal, bloody and evil. UAVs, nor anything else alters this. Modern democracies know this well and try to hide the horrors of war from their citizens. To have the freedom to wage war for as long as possible (or as long as needed) before public outrage forces them to stop. Citizens are at fault for not knowing history and not paying attention.

For the nth time...

"We are at war with Yemen?"

How can citizens be at fault when they don't even have a representative choice in the matter?

The whole "war is hell" thing is trite as all get out. As a metaphorical answer: "If war is hell... Don't court the Devil."

Re: I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

#280

Post by jessaustin » Sun, Dec 29, 2013, 8:38 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #226

pstuart wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let's send drones to Saudi Arabia. Most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis, and it was done in response to our presence there. This is anti-national security -- all this does is pour gasoline on the fire of anti-American sentiment. People like you supporting this madness is the reason the world is going to hell. Ugh.

Saudi funded religious schools are a key formenter of anti-American Islamist sentiment around the world. Forget drones, their actions warrant larger-scale military action.

Just so I know I'm not misunderstanding: the fact that they fund religious schools alone justifies bombings, invasions, etc.?

We're through the looking glass here, people.