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A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

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Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#81
post #56

> 5) Modern error model. I am pretty excited to see this. Any existing language out there actually does this?

Racket, of course!

Very sophisticated contract system and exceptions and reified continuations.

It's dynamic, JITed language, and it's a Lisp, but I recommend studying it just for the sake of learning various techniques Racket uses. They are frequently very interesting from the language design perspective and their usage is easier to understand than in Haskell :)

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#82
post #78
post #31

This is going to be horribly negative so a bit of context first: I'm a professional C# programmer. I love C#, I think it's a great language. But there's a huge downside: C# only works on Windows. This vastly reduces the number of things you can do with it (yeah, I know about Mono). There's nothing here that suggests that this would have anything other than the same restrictions. So, assuming the language develops int…

> (yeah, I know about Mono) Mono solves everything you complain about and that's the only mention it gets?

It's like saying "Java only works on old Nokia phones (yeah I know about all other ports of JVM)".

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#83
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C# developer here, also love the language. I completely agree and I only hope that this new thing will be just as good as C# but fully cross-platform. It would be great. >mobile Xamarin is pretty solid, although it costs a lot.

You looked at Kotlin? As a C# developer I'm loving the language and it is x-platform. And that's despite my assumed bias, because I work at JetBrains.

Did you re-implement ReSharper or any of your _major_ products in Kotlin?

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#84
post #64
post #31

This is going to be horribly negative so a bit of context first: I'm a professional C# programmer. I love C#, I think it's a great language. But there's a huge downside: C# only works on Windows. This vastly reduces the number of things you can do with it (yeah, I know about Mono). There's nothing here that suggests that this would have anything other than the same restrictions. So, assuming the language develops int…

>So the best you can hope for, basically, is a better C#. But not good enough to take on Java. From the linked material - What are you basing this statement on?

C# itself is better than Java, so the new language must be 2x better than Java

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#85
post #31

This is going to be horribly negative so a bit of context first: I'm a professional C# programmer. I love C#, I think it's a great language. But there's a huge downside: C# only works on Windows. This vastly reduces the number of things you can do with it (yeah, I know about Mono). There's nothing here that suggests that this would have anything other than the same restrictions. So, assuming the language develops int…

C# only works on Windows. This vastly reduces the number of things you can do with it (yeah, I know about Mono). Speaking of Mono, does anyone know of a good resource for C#/.NET devs to learn how to port their Windows apps to Linux/Mac relatively easily? I did a writeup a month ago about my first impressions of Mono: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6744622 In short, there don't seem to be very many "Here's how…

I have been building GUI applications with Java and Swing for some time. I am willing to go on-the-record and state that Swing provides a reliable and thorough cross-platform GUI toolkit. Once you put the work in, you really can build an application that looks native-ish and does the same thing on Windows, Linux/GTK and Mac OSX. Unfortunately the learning curve is quite steep, many things are more complicated then they need to be.

I have just started working on GUI apps with Clojure and the story is much better so far! Seesaw[0] definitely slims up the Swing code, and I've been using Core.Async[1] to remove a lot of the callback handlers. So far, so good. :-) It's definitely worth looking into.

[0] https://github.com/daveray/seesaw

[1] https://github.com/clojure/core.async

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#86

C# might be a great language now, but 1.0 was horrible! It was a painful experience to gain adoption within companies and frameworks on top of it (ASP+ for example) still needed to mature. The world is different now. I predict Microsoft will push NodeJS / JavaScript / HTML5 for application development. I'm assuming this will be targeted towards the Go style community and applications. It has a lot of the same propert…

"NodeJS / JavaScript / HTML5" - more likely to be just another option to satisfy everyone. I would rather move to Scala than use JS for anything other than rich GUI. Who wants to support business logic implemented in JS by an average developer?

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#87
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C# developer here, also love the language. I completely agree and I only hope that this new thing will be just as good as C# but fully cross-platform. It would be great. >mobile Xamarin is pretty solid, although it costs a lot.

You looked at Kotlin? As a C# developer I'm loving the language and it is x-platform. And that's despite my assumed bias, because I work at JetBrains.

I want to like it but the lack of value type structs and other GC avoidance features will keep its performance at java levels.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#88
post #80
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it does, but IMO only superficially. Rust has a completely different type system model and also Rust is not aimed at high performance applications, while this seems to be. Many(most?) new languages fade away because nobody is interested in implementing compilers/libraries writing documentation/teaching material/etc etc. I'll be impressed if they can ship something next year.

Rust aims to match C++ in performance.

Someone should add that to their FAQ then.

https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/Doc-project-FAQ

This is what they state their goal is. (no mention of performance)

>To design and implement a safe, concurrent, practical, static systems language.

vs (linked article)

>high productivity (ease of use, intuitive, high level) AND guaranteed (type)safety AND high execution performance.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#89
post #31

This is going to be horribly negative so a bit of context first: I'm a professional C# programmer. I love C#, I think it's a great language. But there's a huge downside: C# only works on Windows. This vastly reduces the number of things you can do with it (yeah, I know about Mono). There's nothing here that suggests that this would have anything other than the same restrictions. So, assuming the language develops int…

C# only works on Windows. This vastly reduces the number of things you can do with it (yeah, I know about Mono). Speaking of Mono, does anyone know of a good resource for C#/.NET devs to learn how to port their Windows apps to Linux/Mac relatively easily? I did a writeup a month ago about my first impressions of Mono: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6744622 In short, there don't seem to be very many "Here's how…

A webapp doesn't necessarily have to be hosted on the internet. You can try with embedded server - Java + Jetty + GWT.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#90

C++ does not perform, is not a managed language, and has nothing to offer. What could he possibly be talking about? I read this as MS once again getting it completely wrong. Seriously C++ solving managed languages performance and memory problems? Physician, HEAL THY SELF.

Computer games which are impacted by performance the most are written in what language?

C with classes
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