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A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

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Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#51

Post by ben_hall »

C# might be a great language now, but 1.0 was horrible! It was a painful experience to gain adoption within companies and frameworks on top of it (ASP+ for example) still needed to mature. The world is different now.

I predict Microsoft will push NodeJS / JavaScript / HTML5 for application development. I'm assuming this will be targeted towards the Go style community and applications. It has a lot of the same properties with Go starting to gain traction I can see why Microsoft would be exploring the space.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#52

Post by taude »

rplnt wrote: post #37
moomin wrote: post #31

This is going to be horribly negative so a bit of context first: I'm a professional C# programmer. I love C#, I think it's a great language. But there's a huge downside: C# only works on Windows. This vastly reduces the number of things you can do with it (yeah, I know about Mono). There's nothing here that suggests that this would have anything other than the same restrictions. So, assuming the language develops int…

> yeah, I know about Mono What's wrong with Mono? I worked with C# only briefly and I really liked it (as opposed to Java.. but maybe I just had better tools). If I'd need something a bit faster than python, C# would probably be my choice. That's assuming it's portable to other platforms...

I've tried working with Mono on my Mac. Meh. You loose a big part of the eco-system of third-party libraries because almost every program I've written uses a ton of third-party libraries. When ever you google soething on C#, you'll likely be getting windows specific results.

Once you go down the pain of getting Mono to run on Linux...you may as well have just written your program in Java (or something else).

While I loved working with C#, once we moved down the path of moving off Windows platform, it's just easier to learn a new language and change your tooling.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#53

Post by hhariri »

romanovcode wrote: post #36
moomin wrote: post #31

This is going to be horribly negative so a bit of context first: I'm a professional C# programmer. I love C#, I think it's a great language. But there's a huge downside: C# only works on Windows. This vastly reduces the number of things you can do with it (yeah, I know about Mono). There's nothing here that suggests that this would have anything other than the same restrictions. So, assuming the language develops int…

C# developer here, also love the language. I completely agree and I only hope that this new thing will be just as good as C# but fully cross-platform. It would be great. >mobile Xamarin is pretty solid, although it costs a lot.

You looked at Kotlin? As a C# developer I'm loving the language and it is x-platform.

And that's despite my assumed bias, because I work at JetBrains.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#54

Post by venomsnake »

matjazmuhic wrote: post #26
greatsuccess wrote: post #7

C++ does not perform, is not a managed language, and has nothing to offer. What could he possibly be talking about? I read this as MS once again getting it completely wrong. Seriously C++ solving managed languages performance and memory problems? Physician, HEAL THY SELF.

Computer games which are impacted by performance the most are written in what language?

I doubt that C++ is chosen because of raw performance (both C# and Java are close enough), but mostly because of memory and cpu cycle determinism.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#55

Post by yeukhon »

venomsnake wrote: post #54
matjazmuhic wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computer games which are impacted by performance the most are written in what language?

I doubt that C++ is chosen because of raw performance (both C# and Java are close enough), but mostly because of memory and cpu cycle determinism.

Does it have anything to do with history? Given Java relying on JVM and in the beginning JVM's performance probably wasn't so good, game libraries were probably written in C, C++ and then nobody wanted to rewrite game engines because gaming industry is really fast-pace and very very busy.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#57

Post by [deleted] »

rplnt wrote: post #37
moomin wrote: post #31

This is going to be horribly negative so a bit of context first: I'm a professional C# programmer. I love C#, I think it's a great language. But there's a huge downside: C# only works on Windows. This vastly reduces the number of things you can do with it (yeah, I know about Mono). There's nothing here that suggests that this would have anything other than the same restrictions. So, assuming the language develops int…

> yeah, I know about Mono What's wrong with Mono? I worked with C# only briefly and I really liked it (as opposed to Java.. but maybe I just had better tools). If I'd need something a bit faster than python, C# would probably be my choice. That's assuming it's portable to other platforms...

[deleted]

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#58

Post by ajanuary »

thirdsight wrote: post #45
ABS wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, if we only look at the language and the "recent" past then C# is both an Ecma and ISO standard. yes, it's only one example among 1000s of opposite ones but things are changing even in Microsoft, very slowly, with lots of setbacks, but they are. They won't transform MS anytime soon and possibly ever but I see saner pockets emerging.

Yes their technical specifications for protocols and formats are wonderful since they released the open specification promise! Oh no wait, for those of us who have actually used these specs (in my case MSRPC/DCE), it's a hopeless mess of blatantly incomplete documentation obviously written by the lowest bidder. Microsoft haven't changed. They've succeeded in changing their perception only. The company is still predat…

Their language specs are pretty decent and easy to follow.

It's almost like they have more than one person who writes specs.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#59

Post by octotoad »

taude wrote: post #52
rplnt wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yeah, I know about Mono What's wrong with Mono? I worked with C# only briefly and I really liked it (as opposed to Java.. but maybe I just had better tools). If I'd need something a bit faster than python, C# would probably be my choice. That's assuming it's portable to other platforms...

I've tried working with Mono on my Mac. Meh. You loose a big part of the eco-system of third-party libraries because almost every program I've written uses a ton of third-party libraries. When ever you google soething on C#, you'll likely be getting windows specific results. Once you go down the pain of getting Mono to run on Linux...you may as well have just written your program in Java (or something else). While I…

"the pain of getting Mono to run on Linux"

What's painful about 'apt-get install mono-runtime mono-mcs'? (or your distro's equivalent)

Its main target platform is/was Linux.

Re: A glimpse into a new programming language under development at Microsoft

#60

Post by deletes »

thirdsight wrote: post #47
romanovcode wrote: post #35

I would imagine that language like that would be one of the best you could hope for. I hope this language will fit all the bullets. - C# syntactic sugar - As fast as C++ - Does not require .NET - Runs on Windows/Linux/Unix with no problems

Sounds like Java 8!

Doesn't Java still require an instalation of JRE, which is an analogue to .NET?

edit: If it somehow didn't need it, I would start considering it as my next language to learn.

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