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What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

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Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#201

Post by justin66 »

gst wrote: post #193
justin66 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it wouldn't matter much because all the data brokers have already bought that information and are under no obligation to remove the information from their databases. That's actually not right. If you get a criminal record expunged, the FCRA requires those data brokers to not release those records ever again to whoever runs a background check on you. If they do it, they're in violation of the FCRA. The thing that su…

Are all of those data brokers located in the US? Otherwise they probably won't care much about US law.

Yes.

It's actually a pretty thoroughly regulated system. You could theoretically start a company like that overseas but you'd be doing it with secondhand data, since none of the state agencies would deal with you. It wouldn't work very well, you wouldn't attract any customers, and you'd end up fielding lawsuits from the state governments whose data you were borrowing. There'd be no profit in it.

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#202

Post by jeltz »

berntb wrote: post #97
swalkergibson wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't imagine them having the education for any kind of gainful employment when they get out. Has this ever been the goal of the justice system in the United States? It seems to me that the primary function is purely punitive and expends very little effort to rehabilitate anyone.

From a Scandinavian viewpoint, the US prison system looks like the 19th century in many ways. I have no problem with that, longer sentences for repeat offenders with many crimes would be better than rebates(!) on prison time, like in Sweden. Point is, I'm not that judgmental and still I say: Not trying to rehabilitate prisoners so they have good job skills is obviously insane. And totally immoral. More of the prisone…

As a fellow Scandinavian I agree. Not rehabilitating prisoners is insane from an economical standpoint and for protecting the innocent. This is true no matter if you believe in harsh or lax punishments.

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#203

Post by topTenCat »

Trufa wrote: post #20

I have a far off request. I remember reading a good long read quite some time ago. It was of a hacker that was sent to prison, I think federal prison. He goes into a lot of detail about how life is inside there and how you have to behave, I remember him advising to fight for your stuff even though you're going to lose since if not you'll become "their bitches" or something of the sort. If I remember correctly (might…

Isn't that how Kevin Mitnick described his stay in a federal prison?

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#204

Post by jeltz »

kiba wrote: post #86
swalkergibson wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't imagine them having the education for any kind of gainful employment when they get out. Has this ever been the goal of the justice system in the United States? It seems to me that the primary function is purely punitive and expends very little effort to rehabilitate anyone.

It seems to me that the primary function is purely punitive and expends very little effort to rehabilitate anyone. Which stems from humans liking "just deserts" and liking people to be punished for their crimes. A rational theory about deterrence, rehabilitation, and harm reduction may be more humane, but also difficult to implement and propagate through the populace. That being said, we humans are getting better at…

And some countries, like the Scandinavian ones, have managed to move the focus closer to harm reduction than to punishment. So I believe there is hope for the US too. But I do not think we will ever get rid of outrage in the press about the government not being though on crime, with the right spin that will always get you readers.

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#205

Post by warmwaffles »

jahaja wrote: post #198
gst wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know in the US such records never disappear. Also, it seems common that for most tech jobs a criminal background check is done (I don't know how it's in other areas outside of tech).

I just can't understand why a criminal background check is relevant for a tech job..

It's relevant for most jobs. In America it's considered bad to hire a felon. It's really bad. IMO everyone deserves a second chance if they make the effort to better themselves. However, my in laws and parents do not agree with this. Once damned, you are damned forever.

Though I want to know about those who were former felons in the US and leave the country and pick up citizenship else where. I'd really like to hear those stories.

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#206

Post by eru »

bmelton wrote: post #178
fragsworth wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want to do all the fun work, and pass off the grindy boring shit to someone else, most of which probably results from your "core" coding? I think I would hate working with you and you're bringing this on yourself. You might have an inflated idea of how good you are at this shit. If you are really good, you won't have much grindy boring work to do. If you're not taking a major part in the final tasks of a proje…

> If you're not taking a major part in the final tasks of a project, how can you be so certain you are good at preparing it for the future? I'm not the parent, but I'll answer, from my own experience. The "final tasks" of a project aren't important, in the grand scheme of things, at least, not the way that I work. If I have an idea, let's say "Github" for example, what's the core of the application? Whatever your ans…

The problem is: the first 95% take 95% of the time, the last 5% take another 95% of the time.

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#207

Post by maratd »

gst wrote: post #191
jahaja wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting. When does your record disappear in the US? In Sweden the record is removed 10 years after a prison sentence has been served. However, requesting ones criminal record is not usual besides applications to work at a kinder garten or school. My opinion is basically that once a person has served the sentence no additional "social" sentence should be given. I feel that that would just be counterproduct…

As far as I know in the US such records never disappear. Also, it seems common that for most tech jobs a criminal background check is done (I don't know how it's in other areas outside of tech).

> As far as I know in the US such records never disappear.

That is not entirely correct. Certainly states have programs to expunge records. Here is the info for my state of New Jersey:

http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/prose/10557_expunge_kit.pdf

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#208

Post by bmelton »

eru wrote: post #206
bmelton wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're not taking a major part in the final tasks of a project, how can you be so certain you are good at preparing it for the future? I'm not the parent, but I'll answer, from my own experience. The "final tasks" of a project aren't important, in the grand scheme of things, at least, not the way that I work. If I have an idea, let's say "Github" for example, what's the core of the application? Whatever your ans…

The problem is: the first 95% take 95% of the time, the last 5% take another 95% of the time.

As far as adages go, that's wholly incomplete, and generally mitigable with good product planning.

Either way, if it's taking just as long to write the generic CRUD of your application as it took to write the application itself, either your application is quite trivial, or you're doing something very wrong.

In practice, for most people, the "last 5%" doesn't get added in until after deployment, if at all. Regardless, if you're proving a market, and the highest priority is in determining whether or not there's money to be made on a product at all, the 95% guy is an ace in the hole.

The GP even admits that yes, the 100% guys are better, but they are indeed far rarer to come across, and usually involves other trade-offs.

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#209

Post by maratd »

bhaumik wrote: post #176
jsmthrowaway wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, the stigma of having a criminal record sticks to you forever. Even now, in my middle 30's, it's nearly impossible for me to get a tech job even though my felonious history was from when I was a teenager. You pretty much have to resign yourself to the fact that you'll work at 50% of the salary as your peers or have to make your own future by starting your own companies and projects. You do not have to resign y…

>> above all never let the system win. It's awful that our justice system creates this sort of mentality

> It's awful that our justice system creates this sort of mentality

Oh, certainly, but it's not exactly the worst part about our system. I'm guessing a bit here, but I don't get the feeling the gentlemen stepping forward are of the violent variety?

Why are we putting non-violent individuals in prisons? Just a thought.

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#210

Post by wwweston »

warmwaffles wrote: post #205
jahaja wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just can't understand why a criminal background check is relevant for a tech job..

It's relevant for most jobs. In America it's considered bad to hire a felon. It's really bad. IMO everyone deserves a second chance if they make the effort to better themselves. However, my in laws and parents do not agree with this. Once damned, you are damned forever. Though I want to know about those who were former felons in the US and leave the country and pick up citizenship else where. I'd really like to hear…

There's a profoundly messed up bit of thinking deep in the psyche of a lot of Americans behind this. I think, more or less, it has to do with the idea of America as a specific (and even ideal) instance of the Just World hypothesis -- that is, America as a place where one is more free than anywhere else (even perfectly free) to make their biggest dreams come true, or fall as deeply as their character flaws will take them.

Thus there are two kinds of people: the "Worthy" (good, honest, hardworking, smart), and "Those People" (lazy, dishonest, moochers, criminals).

In this narrative, Those People deserve a hard lot. Second chances? That's for Worthy people who just hit a spot of bad luck. Or people who can change, and given that Those People have deep character defects, what are the chances of that? The only thing that could possibly get them to change is harsh discipline and a hard life. Plus, why waste a decent job on one of Those People when there are so many Worthy who need a job and deserve it more?

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