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Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

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Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#131

Post by jonsleet »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #102
rmrfrmrf wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well IMO it's kind of silly to care about the government snooping through my data when huge corporations are the ones who actually own the fiber and can siphon all the traffic they want -- then sell it. You're basically choosing between the US government or a combination of Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and Deutsche Telekom.

>> "You're basically choosing between the US government or a combination of Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and Deutsche Telekom." Honestly I'd be more happy with the telecom companies doing it. They can do much less harm with any data they get.

No, a corporation will do anything to increase its profits - or more accurately, dominance of its market. Anyone that can pay will get. With an added bonus of obscurity.

As an aside, when you think of corporations try not to think about the imagery they bathe you in. Think of a serial killer sidling up next to you all smiles and compliments. That would be more accurate.

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#132

Post by d0ugie »

randomfool wrote: post #71
suprgeek wrote: post #36

His mission yes - giving up the comforts of a stable paying job in Hawaii and exposing himself to tremendous danger from a variety of nation-state level adversaries for life - in the bargain. Amazingly commendable - all for the sake of preserving core Liberty and Freedom as we know it. What happens next ? Will things go back to businesses as usual?

His job is done, now it's up to the rest of us.

I wonder if Snowden were aware when planning his mission that his actions would only yield some isolated populist outcrying, a few more people using Tor, some political awkwardness and pretty much nothing else, as appears to be case.

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#134

Post by sailfast »

hooande wrote: post #87

But what has really changed? The NSA is under pressure from the public, less so from the intelligence and defense communities. If anything Snowden has caused those areas of government to close ranks even tighter. There's nothing a leader wants more than a highly visible enemy to unite his or her people. There are orders of magnitude more people who hate General Alexander now than there were two years ago. But his own…

> "But what has really changed?"

The major change that I am seeing is that cases previously dismissed due to "national security" or other factors due to classification are now being heard in public courts. This allows the judicial system to perform its job properly and for Americans to bring their grievances formally to effect change. This is a big move forward, and will catalyze a great deal of change as court rulings can sometimes move faster than legislation.

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#135

Post by Spoom »

gonzo wrote: post #64
eru wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll probably make him a felon, won't they? (Can you vote for felons in the US?)

Yup. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States#...

So technically speaking, a murderer could be elected president, but not a legal immigrant.

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#136

Post by morganherlocker »

codex wrote: post #74
morganherlocker wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a right to an opinion, but that does not necessarily mean that their opinion is valid. From Wikipedia on Validity: "an argument is valid if and only if its conclusion is logically entailed by its premises."

Wouldn't that make it a proof and not an opinion?

It would make it an argument, which I guess you could say is a subset of opinion. A proof goes back to an argument and shows that its conclusions must follow from its premises.

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#137

Post by ck2 »

NSA must be thrilled. Like the TSA, the mainstream public has become completely complacent.

Bet they were worried for a whole minute there.

I won't be surprised if like Homeland Security Theater their funding will increase and not decrease after the exposure.

Well at least gitmo was closed. Oh wait. Guess we accomplished less than nothing.

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#138

Post by jgg »

pnathan wrote: post #52
snowwrestler wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA makes the lives of terrorists much harder than it would be otherwise. Terrorists undoubtedly welcome Snowden's revelations--both for revealing tactics, and for creating the possibility that the NSA will be constrained by public outrage. That doesn't imply that what Snowden did was wrong, though. We trade security for freedom in a thousand ways in American culture, and now we have a chance to debate that trade…

> We trade security for freedom in a thousand ways in American culture, and now we have a chance to debate that tradeoff for digital data. This is something really important: it's not out-of-the-box obviously wrong (talk to people who aren't into civil liberties for this perspective) that our communications are monitored. But it is very important that, as US citizens, we have an understanding and a grasp of what is d…

I disagree entirely. The genius behind the the US Constitution was its acceptance of the idea that power, no matter how just, will eventually corrupt, which is why our freedoms were supposed to be rather absolute. I think there are almost no sane reasons to infringe on a basic human right in general: the burden of proof should be on the government to do it selectively, and even then it should be treated with great scepticism.

Further, we have almost no power as a representative "democracy": the public can't recall a representative at all, for example, and it is only done by an internal chamber discussion (it has happened very few times in the history of the US).

Thus, we're really not supposed to "vote away" basic, sane axioms in the first place. The point of the US was to have those rights held firmly in place, and for its citizenry to use their right to bear arms to protect themselves against a government that tried to take them away. It's indicative of the US's culture at this point that stating this position (which is easily backed up by many of the founding fathers' writing) brands you as a "libertarian wingnut" or "on the fringe." Am I advocating violent revolt now? No, because most would not actually know what to revolt against (and probably don't perceive the corporate/government power structure in place in the US).

Then again, any attempt to do the aforementioned has failed in this country. A great example are the Alien and Sedition acts, which were passed conveniently around the time of the French Revolution.

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#139

Post by [deleted] »

phillmv wrote: post #106
k-mcgrady wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "You're basically choosing between the US government or a combination of Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and Deutsche Telekom." Honestly I'd be more happy with the telecom companies doing it. They can do much less harm with any data they get.

I'd prefer it if no one did it. I can imagine a future where your credit rating is influenced by your Facebook profile and it's not a fun one.

[deleted]

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#140

Post by malandrew »

phillmv wrote: post #106
k-mcgrady wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "You're basically choosing between the US government or a combination of Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and Deutsche Telekom." Honestly I'd be more happy with the telecom companies doing it. They can do much less harm with any data they get.

I'd prefer it if no one did it. I can imagine a future where your credit rating is influenced by your Facebook profile and it's not a fun one.

Such a future would be yet another example of the institutionalization of racism just like the war on drugs. Imagine the day when you have to think to yourself "will friending this person reduce my credit rating?"
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