Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 122 posts

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#111

Post by bobbydavid »

4354325425 wrote: post #40
Zigurd wrote: post #14

There are some curious things about the response to these revelations: 1. Zero "friendly" nations have gone beyond carping. If the NSA still thinks they can put the toothpaste back in the tube it's because nobody who matters has told them otherwise, much less acted on such a declaration. 2. Even more surprising is that zero small nations who are far down the "Eyes" hierarchy, have concluded they can't win, so they sh…

Isn't Brazil doing just that (#2)? I thought they were planning to build fiber lines directly to Europe, and implementing a domestic secure email system. Good for them, by the way.

Somehow I imagine the plan involves Brazil being able to tap the line...

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#112

Post by bobbydavid »

declan wrote: post #45
joelcollinsdc wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i thought it was determined that the access was obtained by tapping unencrypted interlinks between datacenters? can you provide citations of the 'willingness' part of this?

No, because the allegation is untrue. In fact Google was challenging the legality of FedGov national security letters in two different courts (my article in May was the first to disclose this) even before the Snowden documents began to appear. edit: here's the link: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57587005-38/

and did you see the transparency report Google released with the censored bar on the secret us gov requests? I loved how you could see bits of the graph peeking through :)

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#113

Post by sentenza »

wil421 wrote: post #20
sentenza wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has really dropped the ball here. We, here in Germany, have a mainstream political party whose leaders are blindly americophile. The last and current government are dominated by that party. From the beginning of the crisis, these people loudly blamed the victim, accusing NSA-critics of anti-americanism and telling us that "the NSA discussion is over". Then, with time, the industrial espionage stories started t…

Could you provide some information where the NSA conducted Industrial Espionage? Merkel is a politician so I could see why she was targeted. As far as I know China is the only one being blamed for Industrial Espionage. NSA is snooping on citizens and interest groups. Note: I am no way in favor of any snooping on any countries citizens foreign or domestic.

The most high-profile case is Enercon[1], but in general it is a problem that most companies won't admit to it publically (even though everybody, all of a sudden, is talking about it now). Maybe most telling is that the German government wanted the US to sign an agreement which would have prohibited industrial espionage of the US against Germany. The US refused to do that[2].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enercon#Patent_dispute [2] http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-120780529.html

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#114

Post by DannyBee »

coldtea wrote: post #84
4354325425 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did all of that have to do with the NSA? How would US espionage force the EU from prosecuting or legislating against these companies?

> How would US espionage force the EU from prosecuting or legislating against these companies? Well, how about evesdropping on EU meetings where such actions is discussed, and taking the appropriate actions / applying pressure to favor european officials that are against them or remove from office officials that are in favor?

What are "the appropriate actions"?

What pressure do you apply?

You usually have nothing they want.

As a result, pressure you can apply is the same with or without knowing the content of the meetings (IE essentially "take your ball and go home").

Also, you know the content of the meetings because they tell you their positions. In very formal letters. That they will be held to in court.

It's not like any of this is secret.

How do you "favor officials that are against them"? They are appointed.

Why would they care? They usually can't be voted against individually.

Can you point out any that were removed from office?

I'm really trying to understand what such a thing would buy you.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#115

Post by DannyBee »

vidarh wrote: post #76
bananacurve wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course their is no way that Europe's tech failings are because of their foolish regulatory nonsense, it has to be that America's cheating. That is a great way to ensure irrelevance.

That's a rather funny comment to make in response to speculation (that I do think sound a bit far fetched) that the NSA has used its influence to reduce the amount of EU anti-trust action, supported by pointing out how easy near-monopolist US companies have had it in Europe.

"how easy near-monopolist US companies have had it in Europe"

This is honestly the funniest thing i have heard. Europe is usually literally fighting over who gets to open and push investigations to regulate these companies first. That is often the main holdup. They sit in rooms drawing straws to see who gets to reap the political benefit of being anti-US.

How easy indeed

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#116

Post by Shivetya »

jbooth wrote: post #93
bananacurve wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think America made the EU have foolish regulation?

Not everything is about your libertarian hobby horse. California and NYC are 2 of the "least economically free" areas of the US. Shouldn't they be getting outcompeted by Idaho or something? Or maybe the world exists on more than one axis.

Well there, you've hit the nail on the head. The companies come about where people, innovators, and entrepreneurs, want to live and do business. Taking your comment to the next step implies that European countries do not hold all these qualities or not in sufficient amount. Yet I do read about technology, financial, and energy concerns, in Europe. Hell many energy concerns there own their US counterparts.

It all comes down to perception, the other guy is not the right

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#117

Post by madaxe_again »

fidotron wrote: post #7

The best bit here is right in the first paragraph: "and a European Union official involved in antitrust battles with American technology businesses." Spying on foreign governments because you think they might present a threat to you in terms of war/foreign policy is generally defensible (although many on here would disagree with that), while using the apparatus of the state to support select private enterprise throug…

This little snippet is some mindblowing doublespeak - they know full well what they're doing.

“We do not use our foreign intelligence capabilities to steal the trade secrets of foreign companies on behalf of — or give intelligence we collect to — U.S. companies to enhance their international competitiveness or increase their bottom line,” said Vanee Vines, an N.S.A. spokeswoman.

But she added that some economic spying was justified by national security needs. “The intelligence community’s efforts to understand economic systems and policies, and monitor anomalous economic activities, are critical to providing policy makers with the information they need to make informed decisions that are in the best interest of our national security,” Ms. Vines said.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#118

Post by nebulasri »

fidotron wrote: post #7

The best bit here is right in the first paragraph: "and a European Union official involved in antitrust battles with American technology businesses." Spying on foreign governments because you think they might present a threat to you in terms of war/foreign policy is generally defensible (although many on here would disagree with that), while using the apparatus of the state to support select private enterprise throug…

It seems the damage has already started, and deservingly so: Brazil awarded a $4.5 billion contract to Saab AB on Wednesday to replace its aging fleet of fighter jets, a surprise coup for the Swedish company after news of U.S. spying on Brazilians helped derail Boeing's chances for the deal.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/18/brazil-jets-idUSL2...

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#119

Post by girvo »

zorked wrote: post #77
4354325425 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence that the NSA distributes any proprietary information about Petrobras or other foreign industries? How would the NSA choose which US company would receive the information? A lottery?

The NSA never used the information they stole. They targeted an oil company before a major auction out of pure intellectual curiosity.

I'd make a terrible analyst because I totally would do that.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#120

Post by Zigurd »

wil421 wrote: post #20
sentenza wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has really dropped the ball here. We, here in Germany, have a mainstream political party whose leaders are blindly americophile. The last and current government are dominated by that party. From the beginning of the crisis, these people loudly blamed the victim, accusing NSA-critics of anti-americanism and telling us that "the NSA discussion is over". Then, with time, the industrial espionage stories started t…

Could you provide some information where the NSA conducted Industrial Espionage? Merkel is a politician so I could see why she was targeted. As far as I know China is the only one being blamed for Industrial Espionage. NSA is snooping on citizens and interest groups. Note: I am no way in favor of any snooping on any countries citizens foreign or domestic.

There is also this:

> The NSA and its British counterpart, the GCHQ, spied on the official in charge of the European Commission's antitrust office, which has threatened Google with large fines and has already levied punitive fees from Microsoft and Intel, a new report says.

...from this article: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57616173-38/nsa-spied-on-e...

This and my other example are recent enough to have come from the Snowden documents.

Post reply on HN