Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#301

Post by Crito » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 11:27 PM UTC

etjossem wrote: post #274

hcurtiss wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think by "useless," he meant, "useless for purposes of making money."

Apple made a lot of money by not thinking this way, and other big companies in SV have started to notice. Skilled industrial/UX designers often come out of a humanities or art major. In fact, so do developers, product managers, and marketing staff. Blame the protesters for throwing bricks into a bus window, but don't blame their majors.

I don't think this is a case of Apple employees smashing up Google buses. Maybe their peers from college who got the same degrees went off to find productive jobs, but I am struggling to believe that these particular people did.

If you cannot leverage your degree, then your degree is worthless (at least in your hands).

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#302

Post by etjossem » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 11:34 PM UTC

Crito wrote: post #301

etjossem wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple made a lot of money by not thinking this way, and other big companies in SV have started to notice. Skilled industrial/UX designers often come out of a humanities or art major. In fact, so do developers, product managers, and marketing staff. Blame the protesters for throwing bricks into a bus window, but don't blame their majors.

I don't think this is a case of Apple employees smashing up Google buses. Maybe their peers from college who got the same degrees went off to find productive jobs, but I am struggling to believe that these particular people did. If you cannot leverage your degree, then your degree is worthless (at least in your hands).

You've misinterpreted me. I am in no way suggesting that Apple employees are smashing a Google bus. I'm just trying to clear up two big assumptions people in this thread are making.

1. Humanities degrees aren't monetarily worthless. They're quite valuable (measured in dollars) to people who are passionate about the user experience, because they help those people land and hold onto design jobs. I mentioned Apple because it has historically been really supportive of the liberal arts, but it's certainly not the only one.

http://stratechery.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Apple-Tech...

2. The claim that the vandals have humanities or art degrees was (as far as I can tell) invented by HN because they think these guys (https://www.indybay.org/uploads/2013/12/20/800_gbus.jpg) look like hipsters. There's no evidence to support it.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#303

Post by Crito » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 11:36 PM UTC

manicbovine wrote: post #270

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the OP only put quotes around "traditional" because, in the very quote he lifted from the article, West Oakland is referred to as a traditionally black neighborhood . It is typical behavior to use quotes around words that relate directly back to the original source.

Ok, I apparently have a lot of time on my hands right now. No, it's completely non-standard to place quotes around just one word from an original source. Also, context is everything.

> No, it's completely non-standard to place quotes around just one word from an original source.

It is non-standard in your particular dialect of English. It is common and accepted in others.

See the discussion on the use of quotes in this HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6446077

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#304

Post by vacri » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 11:41 PM UTC

kevinchen wrote: post #293

vacri wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful, your bias is showing. Despite no photos of the banners, and the banners being described as having been 'unfurled' (suggesting cloth) you declare them to be laser-printed. There is no irony to be had when you manufacture the story.

People posted photos in the comments of the article. Although the banner was hand-painted, the flyers were clearly made on a computer. edit - Not to mention, many of the people who find this article are going to come through...you guessed it! Google.

And? The OP was talking about it as fact despite not having seen the banners. The bias is still there.

As for laser printers, exactly how much of the printer industry is Google involved in? These people are targetting Google. Google doesn't make or promote printers. Yourself and the OP are creating a strawman just so you can burn them.

So, like I said, your bias is showing. There is no irony here, and certainly none 'at an all time high'.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#305

Post by Crito » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 11:47 PM UTC

gress wrote: post #213

rodly wrote: post #131

As usual, the irony is at an all time high. > "While they took their seats, several people unfurled two giant banners reading “TECHIES: Your World Is Not Welcome Here” and “FUCK OFF GOOGLE.” People holding banners that were laser printed with materials synthesized by complex machines. People with cell phones tucked away in their pockets. People who have used Google a million times.

Yeah - all political protest that uses modern technology is automatically hypocritical. Because Google makes a useful product, they are above any kind of criticism.

> Yeah - all political protest that uses modern technology is automatically hypocritical.

No, only those protesting modern technology.

Protest Gitmo with modern technology all you want. Nothing wrong with that.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#306

Post by gress » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 11:52 PM UTC

Crito wrote: post #305

gress wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah - all political protest that uses modern technology is automatically hypocritical. Because Google makes a useful product, they are above any kind of criticism.

> Yeah - all political protest that uses modern technology is automatically hypocritical. No, only those protesting modern technology. Protest Gitmo with modern technology all you want. Nothing wrong with that.

None of this is about protesting modern technology.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#307

Post by gress » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 11:59 PM UTC

kevinchen wrote: post #294

gress wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah - all political protest that uses modern technology is automatically hypocritical. Because Google makes a useful product, they are above any kind of criticism.

The irony still stands: these people benefit from tech workers' products, but they still want Googlers to "fuck off" and "get the fuck out." So it's NIMBY-ism -- just like the placement of cell towers, Google employees have to live somewhere. People want to benefit but nobody wants to shoulder the cost.

There's no irony unless you see the world in black and white.

It's not particularly surprising that most people use Google, given that it has a monopoly in search.

That is irrelevant to the possibility that the influx of Googlers - aided by private infrastructure from the corporation - may be destructive to the community that is protesting.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#308

Post by unclebucknasty » Sat, Dec 21, 2013, 12:01 AM UTC

api wrote: post #162

unclebucknasty wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I don't know that I would say chemtrails don't exist. I think there's pretty compelling evidence that they do apart from contrails (have no idea what they are or whether they matter though). I am also a proponent of labeling food so that people have the information to decide for themselves what they ingest. I realize that you were just giving examples, and I'm not doubting that these poverty tourists exist. I a…

The only plausible theory I've read on why chemtrails might exist is that they're tests of some kind of anti-global-warming geo-engineering tech that involves spraying of nano particles to increase the Earth's albedo. So they either don't exist or don't really matter to anyone. My point is that these and some of the other examples I gave are clueless bullshit LARPing issues of the faux-left and are not relevant to ac…

>The only plausible theory I've read on why chemtrails might exist...

OK, not to take this to a discussion about chemtrails, but I'm not sure I'd be so cavalier about claiming that they don't matter, any more than I would be about saying that they do. BTW, if the U.S. government is involved in such a somewhat massive, radical, and obviously covert anti-global warming campaign, then that's a story in itself.

>My point is that these and some of the other examples I gave are clueless bullshit LARPing issues...

I absolutely understand where you're coming from with that. Not saying I agree completely, but I hear your point.

So, moving beyond that, my question/point is the corollary: where is the "true activism"? If, as you say, the faux-left does disadvantaged groups real harm by bogarting the discussion, etc., then where are the "real" activists?

The question is not just an indictment of those of us who see the problems but sit on the sidelines; it's a question about a society that seems almost exclusively able to generate only such sensationalized, vapid activism as you describe. This, even when we can describe the problems and their importance. Why do you think that is?

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#309

Post by gress » Sat, Dec 21, 2013, 12:02 AM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #298

gress wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech companies, and Google in particular have far more power and resources at their disposal and are actively trying to change society in numerous different ways. They choose not to use this power to improve the local community, instead insulating themselves from the problems by providing their employees with a way to ignore the lack of infrastructure around them. What 'constructive ways' would you suggest people…

I dunno. They can always become the next Google or Facebook and do something with THEIR money. These mega-corps grew from nothing in only ~20 years. The new rich of America is NOT like the "old rich" of Wall Street. Basically any no-name nobody with 5 guys working in a basement can become the next Microsoft, Apple, Google, Facebook, Youtube, Pinterest, Groupon, Zynga or whatever.

It's hard to take this comment seriously. It's clearly absurd, because otherwise we'd have 100,000s of new multi-billion dollar corporations, instead of a small handful.

I'm starting to think it's more likely that you meant it sarcastically.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#310

Post by gress » Sat, Dec 21, 2013, 12:03 AM UTC

angersock wrote: post #3

First against the wall, it would appear. All of us doing tech work should be paying very, very close attention to this sentiment. That said, why can't these folks find more constructive ways of trying to change the system and address their grievances?

What would you suggest they do?