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Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

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Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#291

Post by jessedhillon »

blhack wrote: post #235
jessedhillon wrote: post #48

West Oakland is a traditionally black neighborhood that surrounds the Port of Oakland. It has been heavily gentrified, developed, and restructured over the past three decades. Now there is an upper class enclave that has been established near the West Oakland BART station, in Jack London, and in the city of Emeryville. Oh fuck you and your dreadlocks. There are only two photos on that page, so I don't definitively kn…

>These are Burning Man hippies, self-styled artists, people who graduated from great schools with useless majors This is such a stupid position to take. First of all, do you realize that those "Burning Man Hippies" are, uh, literally the people who started google? Do you realize that google has made enormous donations to those "burning man hippies"? And yes, "uesless degrees". History, art, literature, these are all…

Eh, you know what? I think you've gone way out of your way to construe my comments as meaning something different than what they do. Do you think that it was your local bookstore owner and restauranteer throwing bricks in the window? Do you even think it was someone so dedicated to their art that they've appeared in galleries and have become known for their craft? Maybe there was some brilliant author in the crowd?

Somehow, I doubt it.

As for "useless" degrees -- I majored in Political Science so I know what a useless degree is. The point is not to denigrate them for having an economically useless degree. The point is to expose what I think is the real motivation here, that slackers have found it increasingly difficult to float without having any real contribution to make back. It used to be that you could graduate with a soft humanities degree, rent a shitty loft in a neighborhood like West Oakland and still live pretty well. Now, you're gonna have to move out to the suburbs unless you can contribute, generate and capture substantial, financial value.

Certainly engineering is not the only field worth a damn. My comment was an allusion to a strategy employed by a certain class of privileged people, which is essentially to find a local minimum of effort/reward even though they typically come from a background which affords much greater opportunity. I contend that it's the demands of these people on display today, being presented as if it were aligned with the needs of Oakland's truly poor.

In short, the people protesting today are poor for different reasons than the people whose struggle they are claiming in the passage I quoted.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#292

Post by icebraining »

blahbl4hblahtoo wrote: post #262
greenyoda wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, they pay more taxes than the average resident. Higher-income people have higher income tax rates, buy more stuff (hence more sales tax) and live in more expensive real estate (higher property tax). If not for high-income people, the cities they live in would not be able to offer the services they do to low-income people.

Google shelters a great deal of tax money outside of the us...

Money that was also earned outside the US.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#293

Post by kevinchen »

vacri wrote: post #284
rodly wrote: post #131

As usual, the irony is at an all time high. > "While they took their seats, several people unfurled two giant banners reading “TECHIES: Your World Is Not Welcome Here” and “FUCK OFF GOOGLE.” People holding banners that were laser printed with materials synthesized by complex machines. People with cell phones tucked away in their pockets. People who have used Google a million times.

Careful, your bias is showing. Despite no photos of the banners, and the banners being described as having been 'unfurled' (suggesting cloth) you declare them to be laser-printed. There is no irony to be had when you manufacture the story.

People posted photos in the comments of the article. Although the banner was hand-painted, the flyers were clearly made on a computer.

edit - Not to mention, many of the people who find this article are going to come through...you guessed it! Google.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#294

Post by kevinchen »

gress wrote: post #213
rodly wrote: post #131

As usual, the irony is at an all time high. > "While they took their seats, several people unfurled two giant banners reading “TECHIES: Your World Is Not Welcome Here” and “FUCK OFF GOOGLE.” People holding banners that were laser printed with materials synthesized by complex machines. People with cell phones tucked away in their pockets. People who have used Google a million times.

Yeah - all political protest that uses modern technology is automatically hypocritical. Because Google makes a useful product, they are above any kind of criticism.

The irony still stands: these people benefit from tech workers' products, but they still want Googlers to "fuck off" and "get the fuck out." So it's NIMBY-ism -- just like the placement of cell towers, Google employees have to live somewhere. People want to benefit but nobody wants to shoulder the cost.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#295

Post by ebiester »

The tech community in the bay area is keenly aware of the issues. The idea of protests aren't the issue; the destruction of property is the issue. That said...

We have plenty of ideas on how to solve it, but they involve the buyin of people entrenched in power who have other power bases. The solution is more housing, more dense housing, and more cultural activities closer to the places of employment. However, nobody's digging up Mountain view for skyscrapers anytime soon. Subways aren't being built in San Mateo county that link to BART anytime soon, outside of Milbrae.

I've said that if Colma would just move the cemetaries and and build skyscrapers, a few museums, another symphony hall, and an entertainment district, our problems would be solved. (We'd probably also have to give the residents there a good deal, all 1700 of them. The big shopping center might need a buyout too, we could rebuild that union square-style.)

It's quick to SF, well connected by car, we could probably bring a bunch of industry in with mixed-use, we could do it well. Of course, it would probably hasten the gentrification of Daly City, but a 2 square mile city could be done, and the land would be a fraction of the cost of almost anywhere else.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#297

Post by vacri »

drhayes9 wrote: post #224
squigs25 wrote: post #186

Things change. Neighborhoods get gentrified. Neighborhoods get bombed. You adapt, or you die. Protesting progressive change is futile. You're not homeless because rents went up in your little neighborhood in Oakland. You're homeless because you chose not to move when rents went up. People need to take responsibility for their actions. I would like to protest the protests of today.

"Chose not to move" is an interesting angle. I'm pretty sure I don't support these protesters, but you're targeting the poor with your comments and I don't think that's fair. Here are some hypotheticals: * I live paycheck-to-paycheck and can't afford to pay the application fees, deposit, or moving costs to move to a new place. * My child attends a good school nearby and I'm investing in their long-term future; moving…

On your first point, I find it's a vastly underrated concept. People who aren't poor generally handwave away the costs of moving. In addition to the ones you state, there's also things like connection costs for utility bills. I moved about once a year in my 20s. We'd generally hire a trailer for $50 and move with sweat equity, but all these little "you're now 'initialising' in a new place" costs really add up.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#298

Post by dragontamer »

gress wrote: post #227
angersock wrote: post #3

First against the wall, it would appear. All of us doing tech work should be paying very, very close attention to this sentiment. That said, why can't these folks find more constructive ways of trying to change the system and address their grievances?

The tech companies, and Google in particular have far more power and resources at their disposal and are actively trying to change society in numerous different ways. They choose not to use this power to improve the local community, instead insulating themselves from the problems by providing their employees with a way to ignore the lack of infrastructure around them. What 'constructive ways' would you suggest people…

I dunno. They can always become the next Google or Facebook and do something with THEIR money.

These mega-corps grew from nothing in only ~20 years. The new rich of America is NOT like the "old rich" of Wall Street. Basically any no-name nobody with 5 guys working in a basement can become the next Microsoft, Apple, Google, Facebook, Youtube, Pinterest, Groupon, Zynga or whatever.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#299

Post by Symmetry »

blahbl4hblahtoo wrote: post #258

If Google would pay their fare share of taxes instead of sheltering them offshore then the bay area could have awesome public transit for everybody. For all of you bitching about the "burning man" types. The bay area is full of runaways that look just like those kids and are easily radicalized. San Francisco is a "libro-cryt" city. Its very liberal, but they treat the poor like shit. Apple and Goolge should stop shel…

All the money that Google keeps offshore to avoid paying taxes on is money that was taken in over seas, and so would only be taxed by the federal government on repatriation. Even if they brought it all back to the US next year SF wouldn't see a cent of it.
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