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Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

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Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#261
post #89
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 54F ambient, wind chill at 40 MPH drops to just above freezing.

It's the back window busted out though? So there wouldn't be a 40mph wind chill I don't think

Look at the pictures. Those buses typically don't have a "back" window (the very back panel of the bus is not a window). It is not very clear in the photo of this article but others show very clearly that the smashed window was on the side, near the back, just above the rear wheels. Driving at freeway speed with that side window smashed out would be very windy and cold in that bus.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't tech employees pay the same income and sales taxes as anybody else? Every age has its booming industry, technology is our generation's. You can either accept reality and try to acquire relevant skills that are in demand, or act hurt and expect to get handed what others have to work for.

Actually, they pay more taxes than the average resident. Higher-income people have higher income tax rates, buy more stuff (hence more sales tax) and live in more expensive real estate (higher property tax). If not for high-income people, the cities they live in would not be able to offer the services they do to low-income people.

Google shelters a great deal of tax money outside of the us...

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts on this are, techies are generally nice and intelligent people. Last thing they will do is to harm someone or get to a physical fight. Unionised autoworkers wouldn't be a soft target. I really hope that this is a one off incident and not beginning of some demonifying of tech sector. Incidences like this could be shocking to some people and may change their perception about poor and helpless. In this threa…

Being a soft and easy target has to be part of it. It stands to reason that people who smash bus windows are the same people who used to beat up nerds at school when they were children. Some people set themselves up for a life of shit from the get go and never bother to change course.

I'm angry too, but that does not stand to reason.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#264
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your suggestions?

None that will satisfy anyone who thinks smashing a bus window is a valid suggestion.

Since nobody has said that, I presume you don't really have an answer.

Edit: I see that you've edited your earlier comments since I replied to muddy things and make it look as though your straw man was part of the dialog all along.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the general arc of "gentrification". First, a few places in the neighborhood are rehabbed by developers. Next the "...Burning Man hippies, self-styled artists, people who graduated from great schools with useless majors, and the usual constituent of the ... overprivileged..." move in to the rehabbed areas and the (usually) blacks have to move out. These hippy - artist types make the neighborhood more attracti…

Is there some migration back to where all the celebrities and bankers came from?

I wouldn't know... I suspect not... probably just the people that don't leave those buildings combine units. And then, of course, there are the foreigners who just buy apartments and never live in them. It's just a couple of guesses, but I think that's probably how that space is reallocated in those areas.

I seriously doubt the displaced techies and hospital administrators can afford to go buy in those areas. I think it's off to Brooklyn (or maybe queens???) with them... at least until the bankers show up there.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#266
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That describes a huge fraction of today's protestors and activists, which is why despite many things in the world sucking I rarely take today's "activism" very seriously. It's mostly activism-as-entertainment for trustafarians. The irony is that your comment only emphasizes the severe disconnect between relatively wealthy & employable 'techies' versus the rest of the struggling recession-hit population. It's hard t…

The irony of your comment only emphasizes how little you understand that NONE of it is techies' fault. Is it their fault they thought about the future and picked tough but useful majors? Is it their fault that hipsters chose art, history, women studies and other (financially) useless stuff, just because that's what they liked to do? Is it their fault that hipsters feel entitled to a high paying job?

> art, history, women studies and other (financially) useless stuff

The average salary expectation for someone who does calligraphy for four years is much lower than a CS major. On the other hand, I can name several large companies in the area that succeeded by not dismissing the humanities as useless.

http://stratechery.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Apple-Tech...

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the general arc of "gentrification". First, a few places in the neighborhood are rehabbed by developers. Next the "...Burning Man hippies, self-styled artists, people who graduated from great schools with useless majors, and the usual constituent of the ... overprivileged..." move in to the rehabbed areas and the (usually) blacks have to move out. These hippy - artist types make the neighborhood more attracti…

I didn't know Harlem had a tech community. Brooklyn, for sure. But Harlem? That's news to me.

Seriously. I live in Harlem (Hamilton Heights) and tech/bankers/celebrities are not extant anywhere near me.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#268

West Oakland is a traditionally black neighborhood that surrounds the Port of Oakland. It has been heavily gentrified, developed, and restructured over the past three decades. Now there is an upper class enclave that has been established near the West Oakland BART station, in Jack London, and in the city of Emeryville. Oh fuck you and your dreadlocks. There are only two photos on that page, so I don't definitively kn…

A very similar situation is happening in Vancouver. In the older part of town, just past Gastown, Vancouver's original neighbourhood, lies the Downtown East Side. The DTES is 'Canada's poorest postal code', and is home to a large population of Vancouver's homeless. In true Canadian fashion, it's generally a safe and vibrant area, both despite and because of the homeless population living there (compared to the suburbs, where bored teenagers assault the elderly for something to do).

Recently, a few businesses have been cropping up; one of them, Save on Meats, opened a butcher shop and a diner; more accurately, re-opened, as Save on Meats was a cornerstone of the neighbourhood for decades before the previous owners closed it. The current owner bought the building, renovated it (or, more accurately, refurbished and restored it), began hiring the homeless and poor of the neighbourhood, and began a series of social programs aimed at benefitting the area. Their sandwich counter, a street-facing breakfast sandwich dispensary, introduced 'sandwich tokens', which can be bought from them in quantity and traded in by anyone for a warm meal. It's a convenient way to give someone something that you know will be traded in for food, without having to go out of your way to purchase it. Everyone loves it, and even the police who patrol the DTES will give out tokens to people in the neighbourhood.

Another restaurant opened lately, called Pidgin, across from a location called Pigeon Park, a common area of congregation for the DTES's residents, homeless or otherwise. On occasions, it's blocked off and turned into a giant street market, where individuals sell whatever items they've managed to scrounge up, trade, for, buy, or sell. Pidgin is a nice restaurant, it's the upper end of midrange, a place you could certainly go to in jeans and a button-down, but you might fit in better in a suit and tie.

Then came the protesters. The protesters came, spurred on by a feeling that Pidgin was making fun of the homeless people across the street, like a slap in the face. Ignoring the fact that Pidgin also hires people from the neighbourhood, the protesters congregated outside of the restaurant every day, shouting and harassing the restaurant, the staff, and the patrons. All this despite the fact that the people who actually live in the area disagree with them; both the homeless and jobless poor and the more well-to-do people who live, work, and own businesses in the area.

The other facet that the protesters seem to ignore is that part of the problem with the homeless population in Vancouver is a problem of perception; many people, especially those from the suburbs, see the DTES as full of dirty violent criminals, where you'll get knifed for your sneakers before you know it, Canada's Detroit. The reality is that these are just normal people in awful circumstances, making the best of what they have. The more people who see that, and who see how wrong their horrible misconceptions about the poor are, the easier it will be to gain support from the voting populace to improve conditions there, and the less uphill the fight will be to convince others that these people aren't lost causes cluttering up the streets of Vancouver's history.

The protesters never cared though. Even after being told by police to stop harassing people, even after being told off by people who've run businesses in the DTES for years, and working against the needs and wishes of the community in the DTES, they kept protesting.

And what population of them even live in the area? What population knows anything about the homeless that they're white-knighting? None of them. They're largely comprised of people from the suburbs, people who commute from all over the region to tell everyone how these people feel without ever asking them. Some leaders of the protest were even forced to give up their allegiances with organizations who actually aim to help the homeless populations, because their missions were so at odds and they were giving these charitable organizations such a bad name.

So the idea that trust-fund hipsters and well-meaning interlopers will thrust themselves violently and unnecessarily into a 'class warfare' which didn't exist (or wasn't as heated or unpleasant) before their interference isn't a strictly Oakland issue either. This behaviour, which focusses on driving people apart and creating open conflict where none existed, contrasts directly with what is necessary, which is for people to understand one another and interact.

It's pretty sad.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In our industry we are privileged. I am not sure another time in history when anyone (almost) could bootstrap themselves to relative wealth compared to their neighbours and families with determined effort rather than hard labour and luck (such as the gold rush or being born into wealth). To assume that there is no problem, that everything is fine and people are just upset for the hell of it is hubris. We could become…

Who said there is no problem? Not me. I'm aware and upset about many of the same problems. However, I think smashing bus windows under presumption that those inside are uniquely responsible for the problems sends the conversation backwards, not forwards.

I'm not sure if you edited your post I replied to but yes, it seems we agree. I may have misread earlier.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's as if you are auditioning for the Glenn Beck show. That's probably where you belong edit: Since when is political vitriol acceptable for HN? If I wanted to hear bullshit political rants with gems like "traditional blacks" or "fuck you and your dreadlocks", then I'd turn on Fox News or MSNBC. Seriously, traditional blacks with weasely scare quotes? That comment could not be less informative, disingenuous, or fals…

I believe the OP only put quotes around "traditional" because, in the very quote he lifted from the article, West Oakland is referred to as a traditionally black neighborhood . It is typical behavior to use quotes around words that relate directly back to the original source.

Ok, I apparently have a lot of time on my hands right now. No, it's completely non-standard to place quotes around just one word from an original source. Also, context is everything.
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