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Steam Machine Teardown

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Re: Steam Machine Teardown

#111
post #13
post #3

$500 video card, huh? After complaining that $500 for the XBone was a little pricey (I bought one anyway), building my own got just a tad less appealing. I will be interested to see how much volume pricing brings down the final price at release.

That GPU is 3x faster than the one in Xbox One. Also, if you cared so much about performance/price, you should've gotten a PS4, which has a performance to price ratio of 1.8:1 compared to the Xbox One (1.8 Gflops/$400 vs 1.2 Gflops/$500), and you can play all games at 1080p.

I believe you meant Tflops, PS2 was already 6 Gflops just for the CPU units (MIPS and VUs combined), with pretty beefy GPU on top of that.

Re: Steam Machine Teardown

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are living-room PCs, not consoles.

I always laugh when I see 'PC' because I take it at is literal meaning - 'Personal Computer' - which always makes me wonder what about apple products, consoles, or even mobile phones makes them not either personal or computers. They all seem to be computers, they all seem pretty personal to me...

To me it seems that the PC distinction comes more from the AT motherboard format used by IBM PC. It's the standard format that triggered the replaceable/upgradeable parts that made IBM PC popular, and really explain the PC naming for (non-apple) desktop computers.

Re: Steam Machine Teardown

#113

I hope 3 things happen 1) SteamOS is very successful along with Steam Machine 2) Windows is knocked out as a gaming platform 3) SteamOS users will be less annoying than Xbox and PS3 users

Number 3) is impossible to be any different if people from Xbox PS3 migrate to it, which should happen if 2) happens and consecutively Xbox fails.

Re: Steam Machine Teardown

#114
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should look into the Ouya[1] as well. 1: https://www.ouya.tv/develop/

If we talk "gaming" and PC and "traditional consoles", I fear the Ouya is a little underpowered. Doesn't it run on a chip that is normally found in smartphones? Some type pf snapdragon?

A lot of people are perfectly happy with the games that their phones and cheap tablets play, and the Ouya will be capable of handling everything they can. It will be less powerful than the higher end phones and tablets, but most game producers target the larger market so, aside from maybe turning some visual sparkle off on less powerful targets, almost everything should work well enough on the Ouya's design.

I see the Ouya mainly being appealing to gamers who are mostly interested in casual and retro titles, which it is no doubt more than capable of handling. The point is that they are not trying to be a traditional powerful console, they are trying to be what a large group of people (who have traditionally been interested but not interested enough to shell out for a traditional console and its expensive games) are wanting. The fact it also doubles up as a media centre machine, aims to work out of the box (the cheap devices imported from out east are sold as basic Android units with little care for polishing the software install so the user needs a little technical knowlege to get things like XMBC and its ilk to work), and is fairly cheap, makes it quite an attractive package unless you need/want more power (in which case there are better solutions for you out there already).

EDIT: I've just checked and the Ouya runs off the Tegra3 and has 1Gb RAM, so it has oumpf than I thought when writing the above. That is essentially the same chipset choice made for the G1 Nexus 7 so noticeably more powerful than any cheap tablets and phones. It won't match the high power shiny now consoles and play their graphically demanding titles of course, but again I don't think that is the aim and it should be be able to deal with some relatively demanding games (and they'll be very inexpensive compared to the AAA console/PC titles).

Re: Steam Machine Teardown

#115
post #81

"The board is wrangled by an NXP LCP11U24F 32-bit ARM Cortex-M0 microcontroller." I wonder if this could be re-purposed (just for interest's sake).

Almost certainly; that's the same processor as used in one model of the mbed, all you have to do is find the JTAG/SWD on the board. The default firmware may be code-protected, but there are ways round that.

I wonder if it's coded using the mbed, since the controller might be going to be sold in volumes?

Re: Steam Machine Teardown

#116

"The board is wrangled by an NXP LCP11U24F 32-bit ARM Cortex-M0 microcontroller." I wonder if this could be re-purposed (just for interest's sake).

There is an ISP switch on the board and the pins for programming may be on the header labeled "debug", although it's likely that those are JTAG. Either way, it should be easy to reprogram it. Not sure what you would do with 12 LEDs and a power button, but it's certainly possible.

The LPC11U37F in the controller could be worth a look too.

Re: Steam Machine Teardown

#117
post #7

Does anyone remember Infinium Labs and the Phantom[1]? I'm not at all trying to make vaporware accusations. I just can't believe it's been 10 years. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_Entertainment

I'm more reminded of the Indrema ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indrema ). I was so ready for an open console back in 2001. We only had to wait 12 years for someone to sort-of do it for real.

Oh man, totally forgot about this one!

Re: Steam Machine Teardown

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace a bunch of $0.80 parts with $0.30 parts in any consumer device, and the difference on your profit margin tends to be quite noticeable.

They made like 300 of these, so that would have saved them $150.

Sure, but it's meant to prototype a machine that will be produced in millions - it adds up in volume, and it's not really a drop-in replacement, you have to engineer the whole subsystem with the cheaper parts in mind.

Re: Steam Machine Teardown

#119
post #21

This is the first console I've ever been interested in actually buying. I've always refused to buy devices that don't allow you to write and install your own software (I don't count hacks on them, so this is the first console that's actually open enough to meet my criteria. The nice thing is that this makes a pretty good off the shelf home theater PC even if I never actually use it for gaming.

Maybe you should look into the Ouya[1] as well. 1: https://www.ouya.tv/develop/

Ouya's bootloader is locked. You cannot install whatever OS you want.

Re: Steam Machine Teardown

#120
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first Xbox also had unified memory. If it was that similar to a PC, you'd expect there to be several good Xbox emulators around.

No, you wouldn't. There aren't even PC emulators that include 3d graphics, only emulators that provide graphics card passthrough or provide software to install inside the emulator to pass high-level graphics commands to the host's OpenGL implementation. Nobody has a binary-compatible GeForce (or Radeon) emulator.

The unified memory enabled developers to practically start using the GPU for things other than rendering. This in turn places higher requirements on an emulator.

None of the emulators you see today existed before someone sat down and started writing them. Your point about PC emulators is irrelevant since if you control the guest OS, it's just much more practical to install a pass-through driver.

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