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Sent $10,701.03 to Coinbase. Still missing bitcoins.

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Sent $10,701.03 to Coinbase. Still missing bitcoins.

#131

Post by bushido »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #128
bushido wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Buying when the customer orders, rather than when the ACH clears, does create a risk if the price plummets. It creates a risk either ways, it's just that different parties take ownership of the risk. > But buying only when the funds clear creates a risk when the price skyrockets. It makes it harder to ever please customers with an 'honored price' that's lower than when the BTC arrives. Actually you're complicating…

Again, I don't know why you think you know better than Coinbase what they should or should not consider. I suppose I am a little biased against this kind of behavior. I run an online business and we occasionally have customers/others ranting about what we should or shouldn't do, as if they have any idea what goes on behind the scenes or what went into our decision-making. I get your point and they may well have to fa…

Some point taken and agreed with to an extent. Would have edited some of my older comments to declare the biases but was to late to edit; mentioned them in two comments a couple of hours ago.

Bias declared in [0] and mistake acknowledged in [1].

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6937475 (noted under "edit:")

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6938355

edit:

quick note:

> I don't think you can make the statements you're making so definitively, nor do I think you should assume that you have thought this through more carefully than those who are running the company.

That statement is flawed under the same premise that the author is calling me out for, maybe to a greater extent. There is no way for the author to prove or disprove that I can or cannot make these statements due to the lack of experience, thought or knowledge within this domain.

Re: Sent $10,701.03 to Coinbase. Still missing bitcoins.

#132

Post by border20 »

mgrunin wrote: post #122
flebron wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just lends more credibility to the "this is just a mgrunin sockpuppet" hypothesis elsewhere in this thread. No way in an 8 person company, you "don't have the ability" to talk to one of them.

What are you guys talking about. This is my first and only YC account that I created yesterday. What is my reasoning behind creating a shill account? If you read my responses in my own thread, you'll see that I thanked Brian for resolving the issues the proper way.

Mgrunin, don't take some of these comments too seriously. I know it's really frustrating to read comments that jump to absurd conclusions about yourself without having done any research. Especially when they're firing at someone they don't know. Not all of us on HN are like this though.

I think the comment by `seobeaver` on the other thread is what threw off a lot of people because it seemed like a needless hero-worship (of sorts). And you explained in the other thread that possibly that user came from one of the forums that you frequent that you posted a link to this discussion on.

Re: Sent $10,701.03 to Coinbase. Still missing bitcoins.

#133

Post by bushido »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #126
bushido wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They buy at the price they quote you, then wait for your funds to clear ACH to deposit the coin in your account. This is simply stupid, if true. There is no way any institution trading any type of instrument, asset, commodity, security etc should ever do this. And I doubt they do this. > Coinbase has is when a customer buys (prompting Coinbase to buy), then the customer's funds don't settle via ACH. Coinbase is the…

> There is no way any institution trading any type of instrument, asset, commodity, security etc should ever do this. And I doubt they do this. Your doubts don't make it any less true. Most such institutions allow you to deposit funds with them first so your purchases come from your deposits. Coinbase has opted not to allow deposits, reportedly to sidestep certain regulatory requirements. So, they use ACH. Coinbase i…

> This is not a great mystery. The answer is yes. I am a customer and speak from experience. Your buy price is locked in, which can work for or against you.

That question was not directed at if the buy rate is locked in, that is well established and not in dispute. Rather the question was specifically for the cases where "there is a delay", i.e. an unreasonable one like with the OP of this post and the previous post[0].

The problem is not how they conduct their market making(or selling a product by definition the definition you presented).

An unreasonable delay adds added risk of financial loss which is akin to, while not quite as dire as; if it was possible for someone to buy a pace-maker of Amazon, to be delivered overnight (up to two days) and it was not known to the buyer could not survive past 4 days without it and for some technical reason Amazon was unable to ship it for 5 days, would the law hold Amazon responsible for not living up to their end of the commitment and unintentionally causing the buyers demise.

Though stepping away form my overly extreme and unrealistic example, as an after thought my original question may have been nonsensical. "If coinbase does buy the goods before the price is locked and BTC rises, regardless of the situation there is no risk for coinbase or the customer."

The risks on these transactions would only occur in case of BTC dropping.

> You don't have any experience with Coinbase, but you're making these declarations about what they may or may not do, and acting as if we need you to dig into this great mystery to determine what's really going on.

You're right I have no experience with an unreasonable delay that could cause financial loss. But "any experience", how did you deduct that?

> It never ceases to amaze me how many universal experts hang out on this one lil' old site.

Right back at you :)

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6929705

Re: Sent $10,701.03 to Coinbase. Still missing bitcoins.

#134

Post by manicbovine »

daurnimator wrote: post #91
lisper wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're basically telling me if I pay for a car from a dealership, and they fail to deliver, that I or a lawyer can't sic law enforcement on them. No, you are over-extrapolating what I said. Cars and BTC are not comparable. Buying a car is a business model that everyone understands. There are governmental regulations in place to track every vehicle, so claims about cars being delivered or not are easy to verify or r…

the blockchain is public evidence, and should be admissible in court.

If it's ever used in court, it'll be construed as a hacker or terrorist tool by some barely literate computer forensic "expert".

Re: Sent $10,701.03 to Coinbase. Still missing bitcoins.

#135

Post by unclebucknasty »

bushido wrote: post #133
unclebucknasty wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no way any institution trading any type of instrument, asset, commodity, security etc should ever do this. And I doubt they do this. Your doubts don't make it any less true. Most such institutions allow you to deposit funds with them first so your purchases come from your deposits. Coinbase has opted not to allow deposits, reportedly to sidestep certain regulatory requirements. So, they use ACH. Coinbase i…

> This is not a great mystery. The answer is yes. I am a customer and speak from experience. Your buy price is locked in, which can work for or against you. That question was not directed at if the buy rate is locked in, that is well established and not in dispute. Rather the question was specifically for the cases where "there is a delay", i.e. an unreasonable one like with the OP of this post and the previous post[…

>Rather the question was specifically for the cases where "there is a delay"

It appears to be the case that Coinbase honors the price and, in fact, we know of at least one case wherein it goes beyond that. That is, they gave the buyer BTC at the new, lower price when the unreasonable delay would have otherwise meant a significant loss, had they enforced the higher price quoted at buy time. I believe that was posted somewhere on this thread.

>The risks on these transactions would only occur in case of BTC dropping.

But, that's a non-statement, right? I mean, the risk is involved because no one knows whether the price will go up or down at the time of the transaction. To say there is only risk if the price drops implies the benefit of hindsight. Perhaps you meant to say there is only a loss incurred if the price drops. I'm not being pedantic. The difference is significant. The former implies that there is a scenario under which there is no risk. But, in fact, there is always risk. It just may be that all works out fine (i.e. the price does not drop before fulfillment).

>But "any experience", how did you deduct that?

Perhaps I misunderstood your original question regarding the buying process at Coinbase. Initially I thought you were asking about the simple-case, which would imply that you had no experience as a buyer. You've clarified that you were inquiring about the unreasonable delay scenario, so I retract that.

>Right back at you

I'm sure we all have our moments. :)

Re: Sent $10,701.03 to Coinbase. Still missing bitcoins.

#136

Post by unclebucknasty »

bushido wrote: post #131
unclebucknasty wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I don't know why you think you know better than Coinbase what they should or should not consider. I suppose I am a little biased against this kind of behavior. I run an online business and we occasionally have customers/others ranting about what we should or shouldn't do, as if they have any idea what goes on behind the scenes or what went into our decision-making. I get your point and they may well have to fa…

Some point taken and agreed with to an extent. Would have edited some of my older comments to declare the biases but was to late to edit; mentioned them in two comments a couple of hours ago. Bias declared in [0] and mistake acknowledged in [1]. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6937475 (noted under "edit:") [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6938355 edit: quick note: > I don't think you can make the sta…

>That statement is flawed under the same premise that the author is calling me out for, maybe to a greater extent. There is no way for the author to prove or disprove that I can or cannot make these statements

Not really. My statements were not definitive declarations based on my opinions, nor were they refutations of demonstrable facts (ex. how Coinbase works). Yours were. Even if you have knowledge of the domain, it does not mean that you understand Coinbase's business better than they or are solely and eminently qualified to predict the future regulatory environment, etc.

BTW, in stating that I cannot "prove or disprove that you can make these statements", you are asking me to prove a negative. The onus is on you to show why you know better than Coinbase. So far, you have not done so.

Re: Sent $10,701.03 to Coinbase. Still missing bitcoins.

#137

Post by permanence »

UPDATE 2: Still waiting to receive two missing bitcoins that were purchased on December 11 and promised delivery for December 17. I mentioned the issue to them days ago and it's still hasn't even been acknowledged. Sent them a message this morning and again right now.

Coinbase has been kind enough to resolve the issue with 10 bitcoins being delivered nearly a week late. But I'm not sure why 2 bitcoins disappeared from my account and they have yet to acknowledge the issue.

Re: Sent $10,701.03 to Coinbase. Still missing bitcoins.

#139

Post by mgrunin »

border20 wrote: post #132
mgrunin wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you guys talking about. This is my first and only YC account that I created yesterday. What is my reasoning behind creating a shill account? If you read my responses in my own thread, you'll see that I thanked Brian for resolving the issues the proper way.

Mgrunin, don't take some of these comments too seriously. I know it's really frustrating to read comments that jump to absurd conclusions about yourself without having done any research. Especially when they're firing at someone they don't know. Not all of us on HN are like this though. I think the comment by `seobeaver` on the other thread is what threw off a lot of people because it seemed like a needless hero-wors…

I appreciate your comment. I just wanted to clear the air and put an end to that assumption. I know there are a few members here that are annoyed that I utilized HN as a means to my end, but it was my last option before contacting lawyers.

I am happy that Brian was able to resolve my case, but it is frustrating to see others dealing with similar issues here.

Re: Sent $10,701.03 to Coinbase. Still missing bitcoins.

#140

Post by emin-gun-sirer »

robinhoode wrote: post #116
mathattack wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an expert, but it seems risky to trust MongoDB for that. Isn't it the wrong tool for that space?

MongoDB commits are asynchronous and fail silently by default. This is in opposition to ordinary SQL databases, which are synchronous and fail noisely by default. You can enable that behavior for MongoDB, but then you're just getting ordinary SQL-style behavior, so why were you using MongoDB in the first place?

You mean "ACID transactions" and not SQL databases. Some NoSQL databases, such as HyperDex, provide ACID transactions.
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