Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins • Hacker News Board

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#291

Post by jlas » Wed, Dec 18, 2013, 10:08 PM UTC

jeremyrwelch wrote: post #224

apalmer wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not ridiculous at all. With that much spread and at prices as high and fluctuating as much as they currently are you cannot expect to take 10 DAYS for a transaction of this nature. Honestly, looking at this from the outside what is the difference between this an actual larceny? A large purchase comes in while the commodity is priced high, the commodity is not purchased but instead funds are held on to while the p…

This is definitely ridiculous. The loss of value was not on the fault of Coinbase, but the result of market swings.

Sure, but the question is: if Coinbase placed the order today, that suggests they kept the ~12k loss for themselves. Is that rightful profit?

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#292

Post by sheetjs » Wed, Dec 18, 2013, 10:09 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #282

sheetjs wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a similar discussion with a very interesting comment regarding their use of mongodb: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5428382 PG's reply in the thread is very telling: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5428372

I've been keeping my mouth shut here about Coinbase after starting that thread 9 months ago. I feel bad for someone that can't put a finger on his 30K, but I can't feel that bad if he didn't do a little research here first. Hopefully on the next bubble people will be a little more enlightened.

As highlighted in the thread and in PG's reply, the default response to criticism of Coinbase is to nuke the conversation.

As PG wrote:

> Strictly speaking I should have killed the post entirely

Now, it's possible that other complaints on HN were nuked by PG or some other moderator, making it difficult for someone to find it.

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#293

Post by LandoCalrissian » Wed, Dec 18, 2013, 10:10 PM UTC

jlas wrote: post #250

1945 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, Coinbase is going to supplement ~$13,950 loss with $50.

In other words, Coinbase just pocketed his loss. (Assuming the transaction was made today.)

That would be my impression, and that's really shady.

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#294

Post by midas007 » Wed, Dec 18, 2013, 10:10 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #217

seldo wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget the difference in the exchange rates. Are you saying you have no system in place to monitor if transactions execute successfully ? I'm not trying to be hyperbolic but that's really shocking for a company that is trying to play a role as a financial institution.

>that's really shocking for a company that is trying to play a role as a financial institution. That is probably the scariest part about the current Bitcoin community. Many of the big names are simply "playing a role". We have no idea of their technical expertise, the viability of their software, their USD/Bitcoin reserves, how they plan to address disputes like this, or even whether they are skimming of the top.

0. This is exactly why auditing (internal and external) and settlement processes exist elsewhere. But it's impossible to have a startup deploy every single control at the very beginning. There are costs (time & money) to get things done, those control don't just magically appear. Eventually, with scale, the growing pains of business process debt (like technical debt) will come due. That's a good thing, because building every single control into an experimental venture that might not survive could be a very big waste. Just like a successful venture is a series of experiments, the business side gets built incrementally. As a company gets bigger (whether $ or buzz), it's susceptibility to being targeted increases because the bulleye on its back gets larger.

1. Let's suppose I employ an old gambit: process a large transaction through CoinBase, receive the coins and say "I never received them." I'm sure they have at least enough controls in place to avoid double-credit fraud.

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#295

Post by mrmrcoleman » Wed, Dec 18, 2013, 10:12 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #241

quack wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The joke is that people are demanding a product so badly that theyre doing business with kiddies who dont know how to run a financial institution. This is literally an economy of "shut up and take my money," but no one wants to play ball.

I know this is bad, but financial institutions haven't exactly been reliable, honest, faultless or good, particularly the last few years. My own experiences have been bad, but the world still hasn't pulled out of the hole that the financial industry dug, so I'm pretty well off and lucky if I'm compare myself to the average. I'd suggest a different standard to hold this company to.

Having spent some time in financial institutions, I can only agree with lastlogin's point. It's important to remember that there are many such mistakes in large financial institutions every day.

If I could post on yc and quickly get a response from my bank, I'd be a happy customer.

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#296

Post by mathattack » Wed, Dec 18, 2013, 10:13 PM UTC

makomk wrote: post #169

mathattack wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you're quite screwed, while coinbase has taken a profit on this (and probably other) deals by delaying these settlements. And what are you going to do if you don't get all the losses covered? Your options are quite limited. Do we know that this was case of Coinbase taking a free option, versus incompetence? My thought... If they lock in a price, they are taking a risk. There's no risk-free arbitrage. They could w…

Their lock in isn't worth the paper it's printed on, though - they reserve the right to cancel transactions up to the point bitcoins are actually delivered, and frequently do if the price goes enough (or just refuse to offer locked-in prices if it's obvious the price is rising).

If they can cancel pre-delivery, it's a very different story, because then it can be interpreted as a free option.

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#297

Post by Cthulhu_ » Wed, Dec 18, 2013, 10:16 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #217

seldo wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget the difference in the exchange rates. Are you saying you have no system in place to monitor if transactions execute successfully ? I'm not trying to be hyperbolic but that's really shocking for a company that is trying to play a role as a financial institution.

>that's really shocking for a company that is trying to play a role as a financial institution. That is probably the scariest part about the current Bitcoin community. Many of the big names are simply "playing a role". We have no idea of their technical expertise, the viability of their software, their USD/Bitcoin reserves, how they plan to address disputes like this, or even whether they are skimming of the top.

Likewise, unlike banks, there is no legal system in place or organizations that assess companies like this and determine whether their transactions complete and such. The downside of the Bitcoin market, pretty much.

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#298

Post by ciupicri » Wed, Dec 18, 2013, 10:16 PM UTC

margaux wrote: post #101

Not to shamelessly self promote, but the best way to buy/sell large amounts of BTC is directly, without going through an exchange/retail site. It is faster, cheaper and definitely a better customer experience. I've worked at two bitcoin exchanges so I know from experience. Now I am arranging private deals between a buyer and a seller. Here is the plug now though www.BitcoinCapitalPartners.com

How can I be sure that the other person won't run away with my money?

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#299

Post by patmcc » Wed, Dec 18, 2013, 10:16 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #284

patmcc wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the delivery date of the BTC ever set? They guaranteed a price and delivered on it (yes, they took a while, yes the value went down in the meantime). If the price went up, everyone would certainly expect them to deliver at the guaranteed price and not the current one. What they probably should have done is just reversed the transaction entirely, but if I was deciding this, barring some agreement on delivery time,…

What should happen is that people should notice that they do not have a reliable process for either delivering the coins or canceling the transaction (if the coins cannot be delivered within some reasonable period of time). This sort of settlement process is a scary thing to throw very much money at.

Oh, absolutely this should give people pause at spending $35k at coinbase (or on bitcoins period). Or, rather, maybe people should stop massive speculation on bitcoins on a platform that takes at least a few days (best case) to clear.

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#300

Post by scrame » Wed, Dec 18, 2013, 10:17 PM UTC

I bought 1 a few weeks ago. I got a notice last week that they rejected it and would be returning my money. They have still not returned my money, and their customer service emails just return an automated "we are looking into it", with no follow-up.

It seems like they take orders as long as they make money (a friend ordering the day before took a loss and they accepted his payment no problem). Looking around their forums, the arbitrary rejections seem very common and make the company seem quite scammy.