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We work a 4-day week and just raised $4.75m (2012)

ryancarson.com

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Re: We work a 4-day week and just raised $4.75m (2012)

#61

My experience working 80 hour weeks wasn't with startups, it was with political campaigns where I made far less money and there was obviously no equity. Similar situation though, get idealistic 20-somethings recently out of college without families to work endlessly. I don't support 7 day weeks and 12 hour days, but frankly for politics it works. Why? Because for 95% of campaign employees it's not work quality that m…

Political campaigns at least have downtime though, right? You can have a month or two off between sprints. I think certain creative work (movies?) is like this too.

When I worked on political campaigns it was summer (anywhere from May to August) until election day (first week of November) for 90+ hours a week. I joke around about my very first job where I worked 96 hours in the first 6 days, and since it was July it only got busier from there. It gets to the point where you would much rather do 10+ hours of work every day of the week than take that Sunday off but have to sacrifice sleep for the next week because of it.

Particularly for statewide and national elections, the last 2-4 weeks before a campaign there is nothing else. No downtime, no family, no hobbies, nothing. Just the candidate, the message, the voters, the outreach. It’s rare in those major elections to get more than 2-3 hours of sleep (or sleep at all) in the last 72 hour push. Again these are elections for POTUS, Senator or Governor in contested states. A state rep race is going to be much more low key but still easily 60-80+ hours for the final month or two.

Things may have lightened up some since I moved to programming, but I doubt it.

Re: We work a 4-day week and just raised $4.75m (2012)

#62

I'm a finance guy, I don't know how to code. I signed up for teamtreehouse about 3 months ago and I've successfully been able to learn HTML, CSS, and I am starting to dive in to Javascript, MySQL, PHP and maybe AJAX. The site has given me enough structure to learn the basics while other books and the internet has provided me with more in depth learning. I wrote Nick at teamtreehouse yesterday and said that I was disa…

I'm just curious -- What do you want to do with your design/coding knowledge? I'm in the non-tech world and have the desire to learn for the sake of learning, but I also want to know what the hell I'm going to do with it!

Re: We work a 4-day week and just raised $4.75m (2012)

#63

Damn, I can barely click around the web without seeing a picture of that guy's skinny mug plastered on something. I'm beginning to think the business is marketing, not technology.

> I'm beginning to think the business is marketing, not technology.

Correct.

Re: We work a 4-day week and just raised $4.75m (2012)

#65
Serious question: why does Treehouse need 45 employees? What's the division of labor? Are most of them required for content creation, or engineering, or what?

I've been thinking a lot about company size lately, and was always impressed that not long before acquisition time Instagram had a team of just six (which quickly expanded to twelve prior to acquisition).

Is such a small team size really only achievable by user generated content companies?

Re: We work a 4-day week and just raised $4.75m (2012)

#66
post #40
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Majority of tech companies require 7-day work week I've been working as a professional programmer for the last 12 years, in 4 companies as an employee and a couple others as a consultant/freelancer. In none have I seen 7 day work weeks as a standard, nor have I heard of such from any of my many friends who also work as programmers. Am I an outlier? PS I agree that tech companies (among others) often have a culture of…

I put answer in my comment. Here is the answer: This 7-work week is actually based on calculation: 5 days * 10 hours per day + 5 hours on weekends (to check email). All companies I worked required 10 hours per day. 9 to 5 is not looked nice unless you don't login in the evening and "do some emails". Which tech company has 9 to 5?

You poor soul. That is not the standard. I work strictly 7.5 hours a day for 5 days. Anything else = pay me more for my time.

If you are working your schedule (10 hours a day, what the actual fuck), you are being taken advantage of.

Re: We work a 4-day week and just raised $4.75m (2012)

#67
This sounds awesome. It reminds me of Henry Ford's Five Dollar Workday: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford#The_five-dollar_work...

> Ford astonished the world in 1914 by offering a $5 per day wage ($120 today), which more than doubled the rate of most of his workers. A Cleveland, Ohio newspaper editorialized that the announcement "shot like a blinding rocket through the dark clouds of the present industrial depression." The move proved extremely profitable; instead of constant turnover of employees, the best mechanics in Detroit flocked to Ford, bringing their human capital and expertise, raising productivity, and lowering training costs. Ford announced his $5-per-day program on January 5, 1914, raising the minimum daily pay from $2.34 to $5 for qualifying workers. It also set a new, reduced workweek, although the details vary in different accounts. Ford and Crowther in 1922 described it as six 8-hour days, giving a 48-hour week, while in 1926 they described it as five 8-hour days, giving a 40-hour week. (Apparently the program started with Saturday being a workday and sometime later it was changed to a day off.)

> Detroit was already a high-wage city, but competitors were forced to raise wages or lose their best workers. Ford's policy proved, however, that paying people more would enable Ford workers to afford the cars they were producing and be good for the economy. Ford explained the policy as profit-sharing rather than wages. It may have been Couzens who convinced Ford to adopt the $5 day.

Re: We work a 4-day week and just raised $4.75m (2012)

#68

Would love to work less at our startup, but the past year has been a non-stop 60-70 hour week marathon. I just don't know how you can work less when you are worried that your company will die from not having tried hard enough.

You should know that working harder doesn't necessarily mean being more productive. My informal research says "you're doing it wrong". http://legacy.igda.org/why-crunch-modes-doesnt-work-six-less...

Re: We work a 4-day week and just raised $4.75m (2012)

#69
post #67

This sounds awesome. It reminds me of Henry Ford's Five Dollar Workday: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford#The_five-dollar_work... > Ford astonished the world in 1914 by offering a $5 per day wage ($120 today), which more than doubled the rate of most of his workers. A Cleveland, Ohio newspaper editorialized that the announcement "shot like a blinding rocket through the dark clouds of the present industrial depr…

At least according to author Matthew B. Crawford, Henry Ford did not raise wages out of the goodness of his heart, so his workers could afford to buy cars themselves.

From his original Shop Class as Soulcraft essay: http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/shop-class-as-sou... "Given their likely acquaintance with such a cognitively rich world of work, it is hardly surprising that when Henry Ford introduced the assembly line in 1913, workers simply walked out. One of Ford’s biographers wrote, “So great was labor’s distaste for the new machine system that toward the close of 1913 every time the company wanted to add 100 men to its factory personnel, it was necessary to hire 963.”

This would seem to be a crucial moment in the history of political economy. Evidently, the new system provoked natural revulsion. Yet, at some point, workers became habituated to it. How did this happen? One might be tempted to inquire in a typological mode: What sort of men were these first, the 100 out of 963 who stuck it out on the new assembly line? Perhaps it was the men who felt less revulsion because they had less pride in their own powers, and were therefore more tractable. Less republican, we might say. But if there was initially such a self-selection process, it quickly gave way to something less deliberate, more systemic.

In a temporary suspension of the Taylorist logic, Ford was forced to double the daily wage of his workers to keep the line staffed. As Braverman writes, this “opened up new possibilities for the intensification of labor within the plants, where workers were now anxious to keep their jobs.” These anxious workers were more productive. Indeed, Ford himself later recognized his wage increase as “one of the finest cost-cutting moves we ever made,” as he was able to double, and then triple, the rate at which cars were assembled by simply speeding up the conveyors. By doing so he destroyed his competitors, and thereby destroyed the possibility of an alternative way of working. (It also removed the wage pressure that comes from the existence of more enjoyable jobs.) At the Columbian World Expo held in Chicago in 1893, no fewer than seven large-scale carriage builders from Cincinnati alone presented their wares. Adopting Ford’s methods, the industry would soon be reduced to the Big Three. So workers eventually became habituated to the abstraction of the assembly line. Evidently, it inspires revulsion only if one is acquainted with more satisfying modes of work."

I think every worker in America should read Crawford's superb book, btw.

Re: We work a 4-day week and just raised $4.75m (2012)

#70

Congratulations! That is a great milestone to celebrate. I was wondering about your numbers though, your post says : > $3,000,000+ yearly revenue run rate (and growing fast) > > Grown the Team to 34 full-time people and hiring > at least 10 more as soon as possible Profitable with $3M run rate and 34 people? That is $88K fully loaded per person. Can you share some techniques for keeping your burn rate so economical?…

You are also in Silicon Valley, from what I remember Treehouse was in Orlando and Portland, I imagine Orlando especially is way cheaper on both a salary and overhead cost
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