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Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#81

Post by kazagistar »

tptacek wrote: post #75
selmnoo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome advice, thanks. > Math didn't matter much in my first 10 years or so, but it matters a lot to me now Can you please expand on what kind of math matters a lot to you and your work now? > I would pay a lot of money to be taught serious linear algebra and calculus instead of hacking and slashing my way through the subject on my own. Why not just take it at a univ. then?

My schedule isn't compatible with a university math class, which is what I think a lot of people who skip college are going to find out when they try to pick things back up. I can dedicate the requisite number of hours to a course, but not in the structure a course demands. Regarding the importance of math to my career now: cryptanalysis, signal processing.

> I can dedicate the requisite number of hours to a course, but not in the structure a course demands.

This seems like a common situation, and I am almost surprised it is not adequately addressed yet.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#82

Post by mattbgates »

Experience can definitely overtake a degree if you can prove you know your stuff. I have a friend who spent a semester at college and hated it, eventually dropping out. But he's very tech-savvy, taught himself almost every language, and has been programming for over 10 years. He's making $90k a year up in Canada. No degree. So its possible, but you have to know how to market yourself.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#83

Post by tptacek »

kazagistar wrote: post #81
tptacek wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My schedule isn't compatible with a university math class, which is what I think a lot of people who skip college are going to find out when they try to pick things back up. I can dedicate the requisite number of hours to a course, but not in the structure a course demands. Regarding the importance of math to my career now: cryptanalysis, signal processing.

> I can dedicate the requisite number of hours to a course, but not in the structure a course demands. This seems like a common situation, and I am almost surprised it is not adequately addressed yet.

I'm ready to shell out for it; I'd pay more for linear algebra than, say, a MacBook.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#84

Post by yen223 »

tptacek wrote: post #76
wspride wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"start building things from papers." Really liked what you wrote and found this particularly interesting. Can you elaborate on why you think this is important and how you generally go about it (finding papers, choosing what to code, etc)

There are rapidly diminishing returns for picking up new languages for the sake of having multiple languages. There are accelerating returns for knowing one or two languages so well that you can build nearly anything in them. There aren't diminishing returns for learning new concepts, new algorithms, new distributed systems protocols, new problem domains. You can keep implementing things from papers indefinitely and…

How should one go about finding interesting white papers to implement?

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#85

Post by devb0x »

tptacek wrote: post #7

I have one semester of college, in which I took psychology and political science. I've worked as the lead network architect for a large ISP, as a developer and then lead developer of a network security tool, as a security researcher (I have a pretty decent cite record and a fun list of universities with courses that have taught papers I wrote), as a 2-time startup founder, the first of which was VC-funded, as a lead…

I have to agree about going for the difficult jobs. I too do not have a degree and I prove myself by killing the hard ones.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#87

Post by meowface »

asdasf wrote: post #63
freehunter wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helpdesk, desktop support/field service, and Geek Squad still exist. You tend not to see developers or architects doing that work for a living.

Wait, so people think "IT" means desktop support? Network architect is IT. Sysadmins, network admins, "devops" (remember when they were called sysadmins?) are all IT.

"IT" is now being used more often to mean "computer janitor" than all the jobs related to computer/system operations. It's a bit of a shift in the terminology.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#88

Post by tptacek »

yen223 wrote: post #84
tptacek wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are rapidly diminishing returns for picking up new languages for the sake of having multiple languages. There are accelerating returns for knowing one or two languages so well that you can build nearly anything in them. There aren't diminishing returns for learning new concepts, new algorithms, new distributed systems protocols, new problem domains. You can keep implementing things from papers indefinitely and…

How should one go about finding interesting white papers to implement?

Go to the websites of well-respected university computer science programs and browse their research groups; for instance, go to MIT's site, and then check out PDOS. University research group sites usually have indexes of projects, each of which has a bunch of papers backing it. Read the web pages to see if the project is interesting, then read the first paper, then decide whether you should get your hands dirty with the concepts.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#89

Post by asdasf »

freehunter wrote: post #77
asdasf wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, so people think "IT" means desktop support? Network architect is IT. Sysadmins, network admins, "devops" (remember when they were called sysadmins?) are all IT.

IT is about the technology. IS (information systems) is about the system as a whole, which includes the people. IT is focused on making technology work, IS is focused on using technology to improve a process. IT is a part of IS, but IS is bigger than IT. If your job focuses on fixing technology (such as computer repair), you're working IT. If your job focuses on processes and people (such as software development, inf…

Ok, but your perception of IT as desktop support doesn't change reality.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#90

Post by freehunter »

asdasf wrote: post #89
freehunter wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IT is about the technology. IS (information systems) is about the system as a whole, which includes the people. IT is focused on making technology work, IS is focused on using technology to improve a process. IT is a part of IS, but IS is bigger than IT. If your job focuses on fixing technology (such as computer repair), you're working IT. If your job focuses on processes and people (such as software development, inf…

Ok, but your perception of IT as desktop support doesn't change reality.

Language is a reflection of the idea being presented. If your audience perceives IT to be desktop support, then using IT to mean desktop support is absolutely correct and does reflect reality. This is my interpretation of tptacek's comment, and from his posts afterwards it seems I am right. Other comments here are saying the same thing, that IT is a "computer janitor".

This might be different in other English-speaking markets, but at least in this thread, that is what is being expressed. It doesn't matter what term is being used, that is what the parent was trying to get across. Don't become "the IT guy". The definition of IT guy he was using is "computer janitor".

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